21 Reasons I’m Extremely Hesitant to Debate Christians


1. Christians are close minded.

This sounds insulting at first, but hear me out. Christianity demands its believers have faith. To have faith is to believe in your preconceived conclusion no matter what. Faith is the very definition of being closed minded.

A good Christian isn’t supposed to consider divergent (aka heretical or blasphemous) points of view. So when a Christian tries to debate me I have to be suspicious as to whether or not they’re really trying to have an open minded debate with me or simply trying to blindly argue against my position. In my experience, the Christians I have debated never had any intention of considering my point of view. They just wanted to tear me down so they could feel secure in their dogma and hopefully convert me. 

It’s not unfair to say “Christians are closed minded,” because believing in Christianity doesn’t require passive faith in the absence of evidence. Believing in Christianity requires active denial of evidence that proves you’re wrong. The next 20 items on his list are ways Christians use logical fallacies and cognitive dissonance to sidestep the evidence that Christianity is mythology.

Belief in Christianity isn’t one of those issues where everyone gets to believe what they want and everyone else should respect that. Christianity deserves no more reverence or patience than the mythologies Pacific Islanders made up thousands of years ago. Jesus is no more the savior of mankind than Maui is the hero who pulled New Zealand out of the sea with a fishing pole. Believing either of those stories requires one to deny mountains of evidence. So yes, it’s an accurate generalization to say that Christians are closed minded.

I know that sounds harsh, but that’s because the truth hurts. You don’t have to take my word for it. Anyone can put Christianity to the test. As long as they don’t hide behind logical fallacies and mental gymnastics, they can discover for themselves the Bible doesn’t hold up.

 2. Christians don’t play by the rules of logic.

Click link to view source

The sane way to think is to analyze the facts in front of you and try to find meaningful and consistent connections in the data to draw consistently reproducible conclusion from. Then, once you’ve come to a conclusion you should be eager to test it against new evidence to see if it still holds up. If it doesn’t, you should update your conclusion until new evidence disproves that conclusion in part or in whole. Wash. Rinse. Repeat. If both members of a debate do that then two people can start with opposing conclusions, analyze the data and agree on a reasonably objective conclusion.

Christians start from the assumption that the Bible is fact and look for evidence to support that conclusion. There’s no point having a debate with someone who doesn’t question their own  data or objectively analyze their opponent’s data. It’s even more pointless to argue with someone who reverse engineers fantasy data to negate actual, empirical data.

Creationism is full of examples of reverse engineered fantasy data. You can’t win a debate with a creationist because your hands are tied with reason and evidence while creationists have free reign to make up unverifiable data on the fly. They can even use data that is objectively, empirically invalid, and they all they have to say to back it up is, “No. You’re wrong,” whereas a scientific thinker will have to use the scientific method to prove they’re right.

Cooking evidence to support your preconceived conclusion gives you a powerful advantage in an argument. Since you’re not bound by the rules of logic you can say anything you want, twist anything how you want it and makes excuses to dismiss actual logic or evidence. After having a number of Christians use this  style of debate against me I’ve become extremely hesitant to debate Christians because it’s unfair, unproductive, immoral and insulting.

3. There’s a good chance they’ll use hearsay and/or dubious sources to back up their claims. 

Even when I was a Christian attending an overpriced Christian university I recognized that half the statistics and secondary sources my Christian brethren quoted were unreliable. So I was very hesitant to use Christian literature to back up my arguments. Now that I’m on the other side of the fence I’ve argued against Christians who quote statistics and facts from unverified and unverifiable sources, which is effectively the same as just making up the data on their own. Two people can’t have a productive argument when one of them is using made up data.

Similarly, Christians will often use subjective experiences to back up their argument. For instance, they’ll say, “I prayed that I would get better from a disease, and I did. So Jesus must have healed me.” or “I survived a car wreck, and it surprised the doctors in the emergency room.” or “I felt a strong heavenly presence once. So Jesus must be real.” These are all examples of basing decisions on emotional experiences, and attributing divine intervention to secular events… especially in cases where doctors saved someone’s life using scientific principles. I can’t use reason and evidence to argue a point against someone who uses subjective emotions to make decisions that ignore facts.

4. Christians will make stuff up and interpret scriptures however is convenient.

If you ask a Christian how an all loving god could fill the books of Exodus and Leviticus with barbaric rules such as when it’s okay to beat your slaves and when you should kill your children they’ll quote Mathew 5:17 ““Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.” Then they’ll say, “See, that passage erases all the laws of the Old Testament… except the ones we want to keep like the Ten Commandments.”

This passage could mean that modern people don’t have to follow all the barbaric and inconvenient laws in the Old Testament, but nobody really knows that for sure. At the end of the day Christians just interpret this passage however is convenient for them and declare dogmatically that they’re unquestionably right.

I told a Christian once that the Bible was chauvinistic. He got offended and said that wasn’t true. So I pointed out 1 Corinthians 14:34 “Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says.” The Christian laughed and said, “No, no, no. Paul was only directing that comment to a single group of unruly woman at the church he was writing to.” There’s no way to back that claim up. That was just a convenient argument he or someone made up and started spreading around.

A lot of times Christians’ arguments sound reasonable, especially when they tell them to you so confidently, but a lot of times, when you scratch the surface you’ll find that they can’t back their arguments up because they’re just convenient excuses someone made up.

5. The Bible is true because it says so.

How do Christians know the Bible is true? Because the Bible says so (or at least it implies it). You can’t argue with that. It’s logic proof. It’s sanity proof. There’s no point arguing with someone who can always prove that they’re right by pointing at a piece of paper that says they’re right. So why argue at all when I’ve lost the argument before I’ve even started?

6. Every Christian is an expert. Every non-Christian needs to study more.

It doesn’t matter how long I was a Christian, how many times I read the Bible, how many books I’ve read about the Bible and ancient Middle Eastern culture or how logical my observations on the Bible are. Nor does it matter how little any given Christian understands the Bible. In my experience with debating Christians it doesn’t matter what I say or how much supporting evidence I give because they tend to dismiss it all by saying, “You don’t understand the Bible. You need to study it more.” They don’t even need to actually go on to give supporting evidence disproving my observation or prove that their interpretation of the Bible has any academic merit. The fact that they said I don’t understand the Bible is enough to discount everything I’ve said. And I can’t say, “Maybe you don’t understand the Bible.” because they can, have (and I assume, will) just keep saying, “No. You don’t understand it. Study it more and pray about it and you’ll get it.” But to them I’ll never understand it until I come to their preconceived conclusion. So why debate a Christian in the first place if everything I say will be arrogantly dismissed as ignorant by someone who probably knows less about the Bible than I do?

7. Non-Christians take every passage out of context.

No matter what passage you pick out of the Bible to criticize, Christians tend to dismiss you by saying, “You’re taking that passage out of context.” It doesn’t matter how qualified the Christian is to interpret that passage. It doesn’t matter how many passages before and after the verse in question you include in the argument. It doesn’t matter how cut and dry the message in the passage is. It doesn’t matter if the Bible itself contradicts that/those passage. Experience has taught me that if I debate passages in the Bible with a Christian there’s a good chance they’re going to tell me I took it out of context, and there’s no argument I can use to prove to them that my stance has any validity because they assume that my lack of faith is proof of lack of understanding.

8.The Bible contradicts itself.

Whenever I try to point out to Christians how absurd the Bible is they’ll prove  that I don’t understand the passages in question and am taking them out of context by quoting other passages that contradict the passages in question. Then they’ll say, “See. You’re wrong.” But the fact that the Bible contradicts itself doesn’t make it right. That makes it less credible and a waste of time to try to debate.

9. The Old Testament is obsolete…except when its the word of God.

As I mentioned earlier, if you quote an illogical or absurd passage from the Old Testament there’s a good chance the Christian you’re talking to will wipe away thousands of years of their own religious history and thousands of pages of their religious book by saying the Old Testament doesn’t count. because Jesus made it obsolete. Therefore, non-Christians can’t introduce any passage from the Old Testament into an argument. However, if a Christian ever needs to quote a passage from the Old Testament to prove a point then any passage they choose will automatically become the unerring and eternal word of God and would be blasphemous to question. I’m not saying every Christian does this. I’m just saying that if you argue with enough Christians you’ll come across this argument sooner rather than later. When it does come up you can just stop talking because there’s no point playing a rigged game.

10. The Bible is the word of God…except when it’s not.

Christians tend to use another, similar technique on the Old and New Testament alike. If they like a passage in the Bible they’ll simply say it’s the unerring and eternal word of God and that it’s blasphemous to question it. However, any passages they don’t like they’ll dismiss by saying that humans acted as God’s pen to write the Bible, but they were only human. So you have to take that into consideration and use prayer, reason and common sense to determine which parts you have to listen to. I’ve had several Christians tell me that the Bible never even hinted that it was unerring or that you have to have complete faith in it. It’s extremely frustrating to argue with someone who can constantly pick and choose which of the statements made in their premise are open to argument. It’s enough to make me extremely hesitant to debate Christians.

11. Everything is a metaphor…when it’s convenient.

Try telling a Christian that you can’t live in the belly of a whale for 3 days. Long hair doesn’t give you magical powers. There was never a talking snake in a magic garden passing out magic fruit to mammals with no belly buttons. Nobody saw God and Satan taking  juvenile bets on Job’s faith. Donkeys don’t talk. The world wasn’t flooded, and two of every animal didn’t fit on one boat for forty days. Christians tend to sidestep these absurdities by saying, “That wasn’t meant to be taken literally. That was a metaphor.” But if they want to take any of those (or any other passage from the Bible) literally then they get to do that, and you can’t prove that they’re wrong. You can’t argue with someone who can dismiss any of their own premises as a metaphor.

And another thing, if everything in the Bible is a metaphor, then maybe the story of Jesus was just a metaphor too.

12. Christianity is a moving target

Every point I’ve made about how Christians argue is wrong, and every criticism I have about Christianity is wrong… to someone. That’s because the Bible never explicitly states what Christianity is, and no two Christians will agree 100% on every aspect of Christianity. I can’t say, “This belief of Christianity is illogical and absurd,” because some Christian out there will say, “That’s not what true Christians believe.” If I say, “A lot of Christians believe it.” They can say, “Well, they’re not true Christians.” And every Christian can say that because there are no true Christians. There’s just a bunch of people projecting their own cultural values into a foreign, obsolete book they’ll never understand. When you go into a debate with a Christian you have no idea how they define Christianity. So you have no idea what they’ll claim or dismiss. It doesn’t matter how accepted the beliefs you’re arguing against are, if you say Christianity is anything other than exactly what they believe it is then they will shoot you down for not understanding what Christianity really is. So fighting Christianity is like fighting a shape shifting ghost with multiple personality disorders that is in denial.

13. If all else fails, you’re going to hell and/or you’re a fool.

Psalm 14:1 states,  “The fool has said in his heart there is no God.”

1 Corinthians 2:14 states, “The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.” or

1 Corinthians 3:19 states “For the wisdom of this world is foolishness before God.”

If you’re a non-Christian it doesn’t matter how knowledgeable you are about textual or historical context in the Bible. Your point of view is invalidated by one simple fact: you’re going to Hell. Furthermore, the fact that you’re trying to convince Christians that the Bible isn’t the word or path to God means you’re a servant of the darkness. If you’re stupid and corrupt enough to be blinded by the devil then why should a Christian listen to you? By Biblical standards, they shouldn’t. They should have faith and put Satan behind them. It’s circular logic to say that any criticism of the Bible are foolish because the Bible says that any criticisms of the Bible are foolish. Not only that, but these passages teach Christians that the more they lose an argument, the more their opponent’s success proves that they’re wrong. That’s logic-proof, and I an’t argue with someone whose premise is that I’m wrong.

14. Faith and reason are apples and oranges.

Back a Christian into a corner with enough facts and logic and they’ll eventually resort to side stepping reality by saying that faith/religion fills a void that logic/science can’t. The idea is that logic and science can only take you so far in understanding this giant, bizarre universe we’ve all found ourselves stranded in; and when those tools fail, faith/religion pick up the trail and fill in the gaps. Therefore, you can not and should not tread on the domain of religion because it’s exempt from logical criticisms.

On it’s own, this argument sounds nice. It ties up the universe in a pretty package with a nice bow on top. In reality this argument is meaningless. Remember that religion is merely an expression of a primitive society’s cultural values. So faith in religion is not a transcendental experience. It’s just refusing to think about what you’ve been told. Frankly, that’s just dumb. Choosing faith over logic is ultimately just choosing ignorance over awareness. So yes, faith and logic are separate languages, but faith is the language of insanity, and logic is the language of sanity. Since  I don’t have the psychiatric training to communicate effectively with people who demonize sanity, I find it very hard to debate Christians about the difference between their antiquated delusions and scientific reality.

 15. What would we argue about anyway?

Christianity is mythology, and every single page of the Bible contains evidence to support this conclusion. Debating individual passages in the Bible is like debating individual passages in Mein Kampf. Even Hitler was right about a few things. That doesn’t mean I’m joining the Third Reich. (Fun fact, do you know what the First Reich was? The Holy Roman Empire.) The only debate I could possibly have with a Christian would be me trying to convince them that they’ve accidentally based their life on an embarrassing mythology while my Christian opponent would try to convince me to ignore all the glaring evidence in the Bible that reveals it as a primitive culture’s mythology. Well, I’m not going to abandon reason, and Christians aren’t going to abandon their faith over the course of a debate. So we really don’t have much to discuss anyway.

16. Why would I argue about something you don’t believe in anyway?

As pointed out in reason #10, every self-proclaimed Christian believes Christianity is something different. But if we can’t agree on anything else about Christianity I have to assume that being a Christian means being Christ-like. Being a Christian means asking yourself, “What would Jesus do?” and then actually doing what Jesus would do. This raises the question, what did Jesus do? Jesus gave away everything he owned and devoted his life to helping people in need and publicly advocating forgiveness, acceptance and love. By that definition I’ve never met a single Christian in my entire life. Not even close.  All the Christians I’ve met make up for their lack of walking the walk by talking louder and meaner. If you’re not going to walk the walk then I don’t want to hear you talk the talk. Don’t you dare tell me I need to devote my life to a cause you won’t even devote yours too. Even without living like Christ, Christians don’t even believe in the Bible. As pointed out in reason #10, before I can have a discussion with a Christian I have to establish all the passages you’ve dismissed as being metaphors or obsolete until the only teachings in the Bible left for you to follow are the ones that coincide with your modern cultural values, and we already share most of those. Don’t tell me to take a step backwards when you’re already an apostate yourself.

17. When all else fails they just shout.

If you read enough arguments between Christians and non-believers on the internet you’ll see Christians who, unable to make a logical argument, will just type something like, “JESUS IS LORD!” as if it were fact. Shouting that your conclusion is right and walking away doesn’t prove you’re right. It’s not even good witnessing. What it does do is make you look like a lunatic and underscore the fact that you have no real argument to make.

18…. or they’ll accuse you of being judgmental

Christian mythology drives people insane, makes them immoral and ruins society. Those are strong words, but they’re true. Christian mythology is crippling humanity. I don’t say this to be mean. I say it because I value humanity, and I want every single human to fulfill their potential, but humanity can’t fulfill its potential as long as it’s being crippled by Christian mythology. I don’t say these things because I’m a smug, condescending, judgmental jerk who enjoys tearing down other people just to see them hurt. I hate the insanity that Christian mythology plagues humanity with, but I don’t hate the Christian who has been brainwashed and driven insane by it. Criticizing the obvious flaws in Christian mythology is like pointing out the broccoli in a friend’s teeth. It’s constructive criticism. To say it’s doing Christians a favor is an understatement. I’m trying to save Christians from wasting their lives and bringing the rest of humanity down with them.

But since Christian mythology exploits brainwashing techniques that shut down your ability to reason, when I try to tell my fellow human beings the truth and set them free, they respond that I’m just being judgmental, and I think I’m better than everyone else, and I should just let people have the right to believe what they want to believe. And they’ll say this completely ignoring the fact that the premise of their belief system says that I’m such a terrible person that I deserve to burn for eternity, and every Christian is obligated to cram their beliefs down my throat for the rest of my life.

19. Even when Christians admit defeat they still refuse to admit that they’re wrong.

You can overwhelm a Christian with evidence and arguments supporting the conclusion that Christianity is mythology, and even after they’ve been completely proven wrong they’ll still say something like, “I don’t care if I’m wrong. I don’t care if nothing I’m saying makes sense and it contradicts a million facts. I feel safe as a Christian. My beliefs help me get through life, and as long as that doesn’t hurt anybody then you should let me go on living my life even if it’s not true.”

It’s disheartening to show someone the light and have them look straight at it and say, “Nah, I’d rather continue living a white lie.” As Jesus put it, it’s like throwing pearls to swine. Jesus himself said not to bother wasting your time trying to enlighten those who have chosen to embrace ignorance. Granted, I still argue with Christians sometimes in the hopes that even though I’m almost guaranteed to lose the argument, I may still be able to plant a seed of doubt that will blossom later.

20. Sometimes their arguments just don’t make sense.

Rarely, but sometimes, you’ll argue with a Christian and they’ll say something like, “God is one, and we know the one because all are one. Those who are not of that which is will be without when the lamb of Judea shows his face within, and there will be no argument then”

I’ll argue with more rational, eloquent Christians, but someone who speaks in fanatical prose can’t be reasoned with, and experience has taught me not to try.

21. The smarter the Christian, the better they are at reverse engineering excuses to justify their preconceived conclusion.

There are many extremely intelligent people who believe in Christianity and can give you extremely well thought-out explanations for all the hard questions the Bible raises, but no matter how convincing those explanations sound, they’re reverse-engineered to support a preconceived conclusion.

It would take a Christian thousands, if not millions of words to answer the Bible’s hard questions, but a skeptic can explain every single one of those questions in just four words, “The Bible is mythology.” You can find evidence of it on every page of the Bible, and it answers all of the Bible’s hard questions completely, succinctly, elegant, and in a way the conforms to humanity’s collective scientific understanding of the observable universe. Christians have to spend thousands of words on their explanations because they have to reverse engineer their way around evidence that conflicts with their preconceived conclusion. The smarter the Christian, the better mental gymnastics they can do.

However you felt about this post, you’ll probably feel the same way about these:

The Bible is mythology

Christianity is bad for you and society

Churches and Christian Culture


81 responses to “21 Reasons I’m Extremely Hesitant to Debate Christians

  • davidmartinwalkergmailcom

    I like your writing style and I enjoy this site

    Like

  • Ed

    This is a well done piece which ‘covers all the basses’ about how Christians are just not reasonable. Interestingly I have met many Christians who just do not understand other things that are explained to them, or do not really want to know. This is not from stupidity. Christians have some strange wiring which lets them believe what is unbelievable and to not believe what is fact, and to not want to learn. They bring that wiring to other matters too.

    Liked by 1 person

  • Anonymous

    well you make some pretty big assumptions in this blog. I would be more than glad to debate you but I have found that online debates are a waste of time. Atheists are just as much tied to their beliefs emotionally as theists are. Don’t pretend otherwise. Its human nature. I also have never seen someone change their life for the better based off logic. Saying those things I also find most arguments to be pointless because they revolve around arguments that only have the appearance of being rigorous. What do I mean. Take the word “monotheism”. It didn’t even exist until the 1600’s and so it didn’t exist when the books of the Bible were written. Same with whatever category of perfection you are using to describe God in theological terms. These are adopted from Greek Philosophy. Most of the logical problems with Theism are actually handled quite well by say aspects of neo classical theism. In process theology God has both contingent and non contingent properties. Such thinkers saw the need to do away with categories of perfection that were static absolutes, and that did nothing but create some pretty big paradoxes in terms of the problems of evil.

    Atheists have brought these up all the time. The problem of ex nihilo creation. The problem of the ontological divide and the relationship of Gods foreknowledge and the concept of freedom. Atheists will proudly talk about all these errors, and Christians will defend their view.

    Their is just one problem. Both the Atheist and the believer are imposing Greek metaphysical constructs as ways of interpreting the biblical text. Its ludicrous. They often both show a lack of awareness of biblical scholarship. Though generally the atheists have better arguments. Often the Christian believer will state things that are clearly refuted by scholarship. Such as the high degree of comparison of Genesis 1 to Egyptian creation myths, specifically the coffin texts. Or say the influence of Babylonian and Ugaritic sources in psalms 82, 89, Isaiah 51. That’s not mentioning many others.

    And really when it comes down to it a ethical debate has the following.
    1. You show the errors in some ones data.
    2. You show errors in some ones logic.

    In the many debates that I have had with Atheists I have done my best to not to use circular arguments. I have never had an atheist engage my arguments. Every time it is to change the subject, fall back on ad hominem attacks, or to insult my intelligence. The same thing happens with Christians too.

    If I can control the perimeters of the debate I probably can win it in most cases. But then again who can do that? Then again I don’t know if winning is the right word. Since someone else obviously think they are right and I am wrong. In my opinion if I use logic and the other person refuses to engage my arguments in a intellectually satisfying way then they lost the debate.

    I am very much average in intelligence. But if I went on TV and was allowed to prepare thoroughly, and to establish the perimeters of the debate to just the two points above then I think I could win against Richard Dawkins or Bill Maher. And not just win but completely crush them.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Curt

      “I am very much average in intelligence. But if I went on TV and was allowed to prepare thoroughly, and to establish the perimeters of the debate to just the two points above then I think I could win against Richard Dawkins or Bill Maher. And not just win but completely crush them.”

      Typical christian illusions of grandeur.

      What you’re really saying here is if you could write the rules (establish perimeters) and someone else could give you the answers, (thoroughly prepare) you could win a debate with an Atheist. What about just providing real tangible irrefutable proof your god exists? You could simultaneously shut every Atheist up instantly. Not to mention those pesky muslims, buddhist……oh pick any of thousands of known religions.

      What you need to realize is Richard Dawkins and Bill Maher got where they are with talent. (Even tho I dislike one of these guys.) But there is good news for you. I’ve seen them debate some real idiots. So cheer up sunshine, with your average intelligence you may have a chance at an average debate. I’m sure you’re not just a troll. I’m sure you have some kind of talent that would put you on someone who sets these debates up “radar.”

      There is a reason the Internet is where religion* comes to die.

      *religion: YOUR beliefs in a supreme being I’M subject to.

      Like

    • ransu70

      In my view the 21 points are really offline in my view and based upon a black and white picture of reality.
      A total misconception of science and belief is that there is no belief in science! just hard evidence. But then one misses the whole point that when someone comes up with an idea, it is first a BELIEF until it can be tested or proven. A good example today is the BELIEF in a multiverse. There is NO proven evidence of even one other universe, it is purely a BELIEF that have theoretical possible support in mathematics, nut nothing is proven. Still a number of SCIENTISTS BELIEVE that theory.

      Claim in the 21 posts was also (something like) that I as a Christian do not follow science. Well I have changed my belief in the accuracy of the bible based upon science fromnthat the bible is (nearly) infallible to the point that it contains many many errors of which most are small to be honest. It also contains old human cultural ideas that are not from God and are not applicable in our society today.

      Just as anonymous above mentions we are all biased by our views (also in the 21 points above). It is wrong to just point to Christians.

      Like

  • Anonymous

    Although it is clear that you have put a lot of effort into this and I support that, although if you have ever met a REAL Christian they (including me) are forgiving and kind so I would advise meeting a real Christian and rethink your opinion.

    Like

  • brianisha9tailedfox

    Christians will deconvert on their own in time. Not all will. Some will pinball back and forth, and some will realize it is not for them. At all. I decided to put a Taoism tattoo on my arm as a symbol of what i have been through. I also grew up in Texas, but unlike the author, I never had a chance to leave the country. I now see that even if i wanted to, it might be a bad decision because it would be a temporary fix. My advice? Create your own utopia, with or without the christians. If they want a theocracy, so be it, but it is time the non believers stand firm or be thrown about by bible believers.

    Like

  • Max

    Sunday May 3. The almighty, all powerful, Christian god has just tortured until death 6000 Nepalese people – many were children.
    Fortunately some will be Christians – the rest don’t matter.

    Like

  • Max

    It was good to read such an eloquent example of my own beliefs from Wise Sloth; but I didn’t need to read it to re-enforce my beliefs – I already have inner contentment that atheism has given me.
    Proof that there is no almighty, all-loving god, is everywhere in the form of extreme suffering – especially by children. How dare Christians tell me that their god is almighty and all-loving when he allows this suffering? If there was a god I would despise him. ISIS does not have a monopoly on unimaginable atrocities, and neither did the Catholic church of the middle ages. If there is a god, then he is committing worse atrocities every day than either of these organisations have done. (Coincidentally, as I am writing this on April 26 2015, I am hearing news of the devastation and loss of life due to an earthquake in Nepal).
    Christians pray to a god for the safety of their children, but when their children are raped and murdered they pray to the same god to take the souls of their children into heaven! My brain can’t handle that dichotomy; so how do Christians deal with it? They must rid their minds of any rational thinking and fill the void with “it’s part of God’s great plan”.
    Sure – I can’t explain why we are here and how the universe began. But I find it much easier to live without an explanation, than to believe in Adam and Eve and talking snakes. If I explained the unknowns by saying there must be a god, and he must be a Christian one, and believers of other religions are misguided because they are praying to false gods, then I would be extremely arrogant. How many Christians reading this blog studied other religions before they decided theirs was the right one?
    My wife is a Buddhist. If you are searching for a religion you would do yourself a disservice if you did not check out Buddhism before you offer your mind to others who are waiting for the opportunity to control it.
    P.S. God gets the credit and man gets the blame.

    Like

  • Kam

    I hope you still follow this site, I really appreciated and I am so happy that I am not alone, you said everything I ever wanted, you should also use the fact that Christianity derived from Greek and Roman mythology, to enhance your argument.

    Like

  • Steven Benjamin

    I feel sad for you because of all the claimed Christians you’ve encountered/argued/debated with. Sadly Christian conservatism has damaged many people’s perspective/judgements.
    The Bible does have many alleged contradictions, which have all been explained using logic and objective reasoning, even the most glaring one of them all (I forget the exact verse, but I think its in Mark) which even the likes of Billy Graham and CS Lewis got wrong.. even this one was explained objectively.
    I’m a born again Christian and my Dad was actually rejected by many church’s and leaders… but this is just people being people. The key is to develop a relationship with God, seeking him in earnest. people and their agendas or closed-mindedness (even or sometimes especially Christians) can get in the way of this. I’ve walked into Church’s and felt judged, or got discouraged because all the pastor could speak about was money (and this in a well-off community)

    it’s easy to dismiss the Bible for a number of reasons, because its convenient to do so. A true skeptic draws the dividing line to weigh up the credit and discredit column, & most pure skeptic’s ended up as a Christian. Josh McDowell, one of the top Christian Apologists of today,started out as an agnostic when he decided to become a Bible scholar… CS Lewis was an agnostic too. Another is molecular biophysicist Alistair McGrath – though he was an atheist…

    Liked by 1 person

    • Kam

      But Steven, at the end of the day even you and the rest of the Christians what you think are real Christians or not all believe in the holy trinity no? Don’t you believe Jesus is god and savior and that you will only be saved through him? Don’t you believe in this verse Corinthians 3:19 “For the wisdom of this world is foolishness before God.” Even you and all Christians are extremely conservative, illogical and one sided. At the end of the day you think the Bible is right and other religions are wrong. At the end of the day if I don’t accept Jesus Christ as my savior and god I will be damned for all eternity while you will be saved because you believe in Jesus Christ. That sounds like propaganda to me, that sounds like accusation without facts, that sounds like hate speech, but since it came from the Bible it’s right and any thing else is wrong. This is why I stopped going to church and this is why the Wise Sloth is truly wise, although I wish he used the Greek Mythology to further strengthen his point. Your religion is promoting hatred, your religion is promoting supremacy, your religion is promoting prejudice, and that’s a fact. I talked to all Christians and they all believe they will be saved and people that are not Christians won’t be. They think they are better than any other religious people or people that have different views than Christians themselves. Don’t hide it, you think you are better, you think you will be saved but yet there is no proof that you will be saved, there is no proof to every prove that the Bible is real, but there is proof that Bible is a mythology because it came from a mythology itself, why because the word church derived from Greek and the word Christianity also derived from Greek, it is derived from Greek Mythology. And how do we know that Jews were chosen, why were they the chosen ones, why not the Vedics, Chinese, or Indians? Why did it have to be the Jews? Didn’t God said he created men in his own image and that everyone is a children of God, and he loves everyone in this world, but if everyone is his children, and he loves them all how come he picked the Jews? Don’t you think thats favoritism? Don’t you that’s contradiction? Its the sad truth, and its reality. Yes, there are some texts where it can be argued to be logical and reasonable, or to be wise, but your precious Bible, and the Church is nothing but a cult and the majority of verses in the Bible promotes nothing but what I said above. At least the Quaran acknowledges other religion, they respect other religion and believe that as long as you believe in God and do good deeds for the sake of doing good deeds you will go to heaven, Hinduism and Buddhism deeply analyzes people, all life in this world, and reality, contributed heavily towards science, fitness, philosophy and our understanding of the world, Christianity on the other hand really did nothing but promoted everything i mentioned above.

      Like

      • Anonymous

        I am sorry that you have had a hard time. Most of the issues you have brought up are theological developments that run contrary to the bible. For instance the modern Idea of hell wasn’t mainstream until the fifth century. Much of the crooked theology is due to the impact of Augustine. Much of the problem comes due to the development of classical theism which is based off Greek Platonic concepts from Plato. Anyways I wish you the best of luck. Whatever you do don’t lose hope though. Their is meaning in life. I would rather someone be a good atheist then a bad Christian.

        Liked by 2 people

  • j6r7a

    I wish I had read this post before I wasted the better part of a day believing I could find one kind hearted Christian that would help me try to understand why Christianity is great and should be followed and show me through example how great life can be if you simply follow the biblical guidelines on how to live and follow Christ.
    I did learn a lot today.
    1. Leaving the Christian church is the best decision I have ever made.
    2. I am accountable for Adams sin and will burn and suffer but there is absolutely no way any christian today can be compared to the ones of the Crusades.
    3. The immortality that Christianity is counting on reduces the value of human life. This life is not important as long as you believe you get a pass to the next one.
    4. Christianity is the most unstable of the big three. There ability to hate and fight is not limited to non believers but is also directed at each other which seems to be the reason they did not simply break apart, they exploded into a lot of denominations. Each of which they all hate and sentence to the lake of fire.
    5. Christians are so absolutely ready to fight and argue that if you tell them they are right and you want their help to understand how great the Lord is and help me become a Christian, they lash out and sentence me to burn and suffer for all of eternity for being too stupid to believe what they are not able to teach me.
    6. It is perfectly ok for any Christian to assume the power of God and judge and sentence anyone at any time they feel the need but nobody better even think about playing God and mess around with stem cell research and any benefits that could possibly come from that research is somehow a deception tool used by Satan to fool us.
    7. Satan is more powerful or at least much smarter than God since he can deceptively create cures for diseases that God either cannot or will not help us and feels the need to let us suffer to make our faith stronger. That also make Satan more compassionate then God and realized the value of human life.

    Screw it, I have a headache. Bottom line. It is foolish to believe a Christian is as good as he claims to be and I am a fool for wasting my time pretending to be moral if I don’t believe in God.

    I guess without believing I am worthless and unworthy of being alive, I have no reason to live and without the hope of an afterlife will be so afraid of death that I will commit suicide.

    Anyway, thanks again for the post. I didn’t find your site until after I became a recovering christian so I didn’t have the benefit of your perspective to help me with the decision but have found your articles comforting and reassuring that I am not evil for leaving the Church.

    Like

  • Phoenix Raine

    When you say: “So fighting Christianity is like fighting a shape shifting ghost with multiple personality disorders that is in denial”, I unfortunately had to laugh to ease the pain of dealing with the reality of this (and many of the other things you posted on this article), in my own life, and as a former Christian myself (though now more gnostic and free thinking). So I can relate and yet, we must continue to exercise compassion as Truth Seekers, as often times, people are only ‘working with what they’ve got’ and from the point of ‘where they are at’ within. Good article overall and some very keen observations.

    Liked by 1 person

  • SR-Seattle

    Let me see if I have this right. The Old Testament made Zeus obsolete. Then Jesus made the Old Testament obsolete. Then Mohammad made Jesus obsolete. Then Joseph Smith made Mohammad obsolete. Then L Ron Hubbard made Joseph Smith obsolete. Then the I-Phone made the flip-phone obsolete….. oh where will it end….where will it end?

    Like

  • kevinchrist123

    I’ve always reasoned that we all grew up in an illusion of reality that was perpetrated by society and reinterated by the adults around you. You were told what to think and how to reason by your parents and teachers, but you never really knew any of these people as persons. You grasp reality through perception and once that became comfortable and familiar, it became truth.

    Why is it so hard to understand what faith is to others when we act on faith everyday of the week. If we didn’t fave faith that we would get up and go to work tomarrow, why should do our laundry the previous day or pay the rent?

    Hell, If you really look at it, the laws that we try to obey have been on the books for maybe longer than anyone here has been living and how is that any different from what people of faith do with their holy books.

    I think the real issue is not to question Christians on their faith but on the authority from which those laws come from.

    The best way I’ve found to make a Christian rethink how they are doing something is the show them the limitations Christ gave them in the persuit of their faith.

    Like

  • SR-Seattle

    Ask a Christian if their faith is greater than the Muslim with 8 lbs of C-4 in their vest.

    There are an estimated 4,000 religions on this planet, the followers of each having absolute faith that their way is the one true way and their god is the one true god. In Syria and Iraq ISIS is killing all non-believers (and taking their property and possessions) who don’t convert to their brand of Islam Why does this sound so familiar? Because it’s exactly what Pope Sixtus IV did in 1478 to cleanse the Iberian Peninsula of Jews and Muslims and to split up the booty with Ferdinand and Isabella. It was called the Inquisition.

    Liked by 1 person

    • kevinchrist123

      It just goes to show you Ideology didn’t start with the progressive movement as some on the right have suggested. It started long ago but was most likely, first institutionalize at First Council of Nicaea

      Like

  • SR-Seattle

    The Scientific Method vs Creationist Method cartoon is by John Trever, Albuquerque Journal, 1998.
    btw, I always thought that Pharaoh’s priest turning his staff into a snake was pretty good stuff even though his lost the snake fight. If there was a church nearby me where a guy could go and have a stick turned into a serpent before your eyes I might go a few times, ‘specially if they had snake fights you could bet on. They just don’t make priests like they used to.

    Like

  • Anonymous

    I normally do not bother, but I just had to. If Christianity is mythology then do you have a website that is dedicated to Greek mythology. If it is mythology then why waste all your time getting so upset about it. If Christians have freedom of speech just as a you do. For an atheist life is very short anyway why would you want to waste it taking jabs at Christianity when you should be out enjoying life before you BURN IN HELL I am sorry I had to say it HAHA. I will pray you because that is my right. Hey love you all!!!!!

    Like

    • Curt

      If you had not made it so blatantly obvious you’re a “christian” I would have assumed you’re a child from your grammar. As far as commenting on your post, it is the same idiocy and hateful threats we’ve heard millions of times. Stay and learn or go and keep praying. I think a lack of intellect creates a vacuum filled with religion.

      Curt

      Like

      • Anonymous

        Curt you are correct my grammar is bad. I do apologize for my remark and for the assholes that call themselves Christians and go around protesting, blaming the worlds troubles on homosexuals. God hates the sin but loves the sinner. Curt, Christians are called to make disciples, followers of Christ. We should be teaching the love of Christ not spreading hate. I promise I will not push my agenda on you any more.
        Just 1 freak 4 Christ
        ps really Fucktards yes I did read the posts.

        Like

        • kevinchrist123

          The whole idea about religion is to have a personal relationship with the deity of your choice.. I reenterate A PERSONAL, not public, a personal relationship with a higher power. What those who call themselves Christian come up short on is they try to force others to adhere to laws that only apply to those who subscribe to that particular faith.

          It isn’t about love, it’s about respect and that’s rather lacking in people who have a histroy of disregarding the wishes of others. Christrian’s think they can somehow transfer their feelings to others as they do this religious ferver.

          Religion only fills the holes in peoples lives who have them and are looking for something to fill them with. Not everyone has holes in their lives nor wish to cover those holes with a idealogical band-ade.

          This, to me is exactly what religion is. A band-ade to cover the questions that we all ask about reality. The truest differance between a religious person and a non religious person is that those with religion have found their truth and are looking for facts to support that truth. Non religious person look for facts that they can use to ultimately come to the truth.

          Both can be as wrong as rain, but as long as we respect one another, that won’t be a problem.

          Hypocracy is a double edged sword that strikes the intolerant for being intolerant of those they deem intolerant.

          Like

  • TxRiverElf

    Your blog was shared with me by a fellow Atheist… Ron Luther… who has a page on fb… Our Age of Reason… Ron knew I would appreciate your blog… and I do… so like him… I will promote your blog on my fb page… Atheists and Elephants.🙂

    I think you may have expressed every logical observation and experience any articulate Atheists has… or is likely to have… when it comes to ‘debating with believers’ … Wise Sloth. 🙂

    I will need more time to read all the commentary… and acknowledge the likelihood that I will be responding to the ‘believers’ who STILL ignore what you have shared… heehee

    I do it… not with expectation of ‘converting them’… because I know they have an agenda… and I sometimes am in the mood to facilitate it… because it reveals their blatant blindness and WILLFUL STUPIDITY as opposed to ‘amendable mere ignorance’.😉

    And that cartoonist (the first one shared in this thread) is John Trever!

    http://www.politicalcartoons.com/artist/John+Trever.html

    Like

  • DenverDen

    I suppose it’s rather pointless to give a thumbs up because the people that NEED to read this won’t, and even if they did, wouldn’t even consider it for a moment. The cult of religion is absolutely dangerous to our very existence as Christian Science will easily demonstrate (no medicine, no free thought, no fun.
    I laud all of you thoughtful atheists and anti theists who have shown that religion will never be necessary for man to live in peace and harmony with one another, a science/math heavy education, free thought, love and solidarity are what this world needs, not another single goddamn religious nut to create even more division amongst his fellow human

    Like

  • Adam

    Very thought provoking. May I discuss with you the One True Log? In the One True Log you will find peace and can be regenerated in an eternal place of bliss where growing continues. The One True Log was sent by The Great Branch Himself. It important you hear these words, lest you eternally rot and be tormented in the gnawing teeth of the afterlife by the Termiter.

    Like

  • Curt

    I’ve been an “atheist” since I was a child. About the same time my cognitive thinking and reasoning “came on line.” I’m now in my 40’s and still live in the bible belt. Back then I couldn’t tell anyone their belief system is horribly flawed but now that I have a son I have become “militant” trying to keep these fucktards away from him. Thanks for compiling all my findings in one place.

    Curt

    Like

  • chandlerklebs

    My favorite part is: “That wasn’t meant to be taken literally. That was a metaphor.”

    What it means is that they just admitted that a part of their inerrant book is false. If it is not literal truth, I don’t base my life on it. If I want metaphor, I can read books by Dr. Seuss. At least I understand those stories.

    Like

  • LotZ

    Hey! I’m with you. I’m an ex-Christian of 30+ years. As far as #7… They would say, his dying was the “it’s finished” part. That’s when the law was abolished. But anywho… Just had a heated conversation with a Chriatian frown of 20 years. He yelled, talked over me and everything. He asked me to prove my claims. I said, I don’t have to… My claims won’t send you to a fiery place, and they haven’t put an absolute religious law over the world. Yours has! So you have to be the bearer of proof! Prove to me, that if I die without Christ belief, I’m going to hell. He say… “The bible says it”! I threw my hands up! Awwwww… Circular reason is for idiots.

    Like

  • Iryheights1

    Ive been reading your debates and I would say youre a privileged skilled writer, a person who can put their thoughts on paper alot more than other people can. A person who has researched on how to be logical and un-logical. For instance the book “how to win every argument – the use and abuse of logic by Madsen Pirie”. But what bothers me personally is how in every hollywood movie they degrade God somehow and you have to be unobservant to realize it. How the word “wealth” in the bible is seen as the word “money” in the present times meanwhile money wasnt even created in biblical times, gold was yes but it doesnt make it money. For example the origin of the word, Apocoloytic- actully means “unveiling” and not the end of the world. My point is don’t misinterpret the words of the bible into present societies believes and system. Read the satanistic Bible by Anton Lavey and it clearly shows how the world is becoming through logic and reason. Then you get some celebrities who go up against the system by revealing the truth and get killed off without proper indication on how their death happened. Oy yah is there a difference between being wise and smart?

    Like

    • wise sloth

      I understand your frustration that Hollywood openly mocks Christianity. This definitely happens. Two prime examples that stand out are Harold and Kumar:

      and South Park:

      The thing about that though is that Christians have persecuted everyone in the world who isn’t Christians for centuries, and Christians don’t just mock other people. Christians deny other people basic human rights and lock them away in inhumane prisons. Christians have caused untold human suffering in the past and continue to do so in the present. So when Christians get upset about being “persecuted” by being made fun of I have a hard time feeling sorry for them. This is especially true since Christianity is blatantly mythology.

      https://wisesloth.wordpress.com/2013/03/29/10-scriptures-that-reveal-the-bible-is-mythology/

      https://wisesloth.wordpress.com/2011/05/24/christianity-is-mythology-or-a-hamburger-is-a-hamburger/

      Everyone has a right to believe whatever they want, but the cold, hard reality is that mythology doesn’t deserve the same respect as reality.

      https://wisesloth.wordpress.com/2013/05/24/why-you-shouldnt-respect-religious-beliefs/

      That doesn’t mean Christians should be made fun of remorselessly. It just means that Christians don’t have a legitimate leg to stand on when demanding equal respect with reality-based observations on how the universe works.

      Yes, there are a lot of misinterpretations of the Bible, but that’s almost a moot point considering that the entirety of the Bible is a mishmash of Jewish folklore and mythology. To get a better understanding of how misunderstood the Bible is, read “Misquoting Jesus” by Bart Ehman:

      http://www.amazon.com/Misquoting-Jesus-Story-Behind-Changed/dp/0060859512

      I’ve read “The Satanic Bible” by Anton Lavey, and I don’t see his work as a testament to logic. I see his work as a subjective, misguided, reactionary response to the ills of Christianity. If you want to see where logic and reason are taking society I suggest reading the following two books:

      http://www.amazon.com/The-Moral-Landscape-Science-Determine/dp/143917122X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1378791720&sr=8-1&keywords=sam+harris+the+moral+landscape

      I’m not disagreeing with you out of spite. I want to show you the obvious truth that the Bible is mythology. God may still exist, but God is definitely not Yahweh, who ordered that it’s okay to beat your slaves within an inch of their life since they’re you’re property. The Bible was a primitive work of mythology written by primitive, superstitious tribesmen. So it’s okay to let go of the threat of hell. The theocratic political leaders who wrote the Bible don’t speak for God. They only speak for their own self-interests:

      http://www.evilbible.com/evil-bible-home-page/slavery/

      And to answer your final question, “What’s the difference between being wise and being smart?” The answer is that being smart is knowing the answer to a lot of questions. Being wise is knowing the answer to the most important questions.

      Like

      • FlipWorldUpsidedown (@Flpwrldupsdwn)

        All these books and references are by people that are against Christianity and the bible going into it…
        and not heading this verse
        Col 2:8
        Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

        Like

        • Kam

          I am not the one to judge but I am sure you will go to hell. What you just stated is totally unreasonable, first of all how do you know philosophy, or any other religion for that matter is deceit? I will give you a lecture of history, do you know that the first religion ever worshiped since the existence of human beings is Hinduism? Did you know that Christianity copied so many texts, sanskrits, and upanisahds that basically almost plagiarized Hinduism? So according to your logic everything in this world beside Christianity is deceit so Hinduism, Buddhism, and even Islam in your own words are deceit right? But those three religion has some principles and similarities between the bible, so in your own words shouldn’t Christianity considered as lies and deceit because it holds similarities between philosophy and other religion in the world? And don’t you dare say oh not some texts, sanskrits, upanishads, scrolls, and koran and etc are deceitful because you precious bible said in Corinthians 3:19 “For the wisdom of this world is foolishness before God.”

          Like

  • Timothy

    Hi.

    I was wondering, If God could do one thing to make you believe. What would it be?

    Like honestly.

    Thanks

    Like

  • Jess

    No, my 2¢ doesn’t matter in even the slightest of ways. Seeing as this article is ancient now anyway bumps me down to about half a cent. Still, I’m going in with a short list.

    1-2, 4: Most Christians, at least the true ones who practice the preaching, will not argue in this manner. I’d wager to say you’re only encouraging the Christmas and Easter Christian.

    3: The bible, when approached from the outside, is an amazing book, proven time and time again to be historically and scientifically factual. In the last decade, the percentage of atheistic scientists has dropped from 95% to 63%.

    5-6: No, the bible does not contradict itself. A casual glance would say yes, but digging deeper, you see this isn’t the case. A perfect example would be Judas Iscariot’s death, “changing” a little each time throughout the Gospels. In fact, go read all four accounts, bearing in mind that the rope broke after a period of time, and see later in Acts that God was fully capable of disemboweling someone.

    7: No, Jesus did not come to abolish the law. That’s correct. “Testament” translates into “Covenant,” and that means agreement. Hebrews says, “Without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness.” The old agreement wasn’t enough. And before you go there… People were saved then by believing in the coming of the Messiah, by having faith that the promise would be fulfilled.

    8: This one actually had me thinking. However, I’ll resort back to my 1,2,4 point, and add something else. Prime example is women in church. At the time of Paul’s writing, there were several problems being caused by women in that church. Paul addressed these points. Most all of the New Testament is a series if epistles, or letters, Paul wrote to the early church. No bible-studying Christian will tell you that God banned women from participating in worship, nor will a bible-studying Christian ever call the bible unerring. Just one example.

    9: I’ve never heard any Christian refer to these stories as metaphors. Not denying that some probably do, but I’d tell those Christians to hit the books more.

    11: If you are not saved, you are going to hell. Doesn’t mean we can’t have a good discussion. And with your mentality, missionaries and pastors would be wasting our time.

    10,12-13: godandscience.org is really all I can say here…

    14: Damn, you’re absolutely right. And it’s those bad Christians that give us a bad name, even worse so than people like you who bash us. There are Christians who have sacrificed everything. Just today, a woman in Sudan was raped and tortured, and had her breasts cut off and fed to animals before having an automatic shoved into her vagina and shot off. Why? She refused to say “Jesus is dead.” More Christians should step up, yes, but don’t dare belittle the ones who have given everything. I will say with my dying breath that we as Christians aren’t doing enough, aren’t sacrificing enough. Still, there is FAR more hate crime against Christians, even in the US, than against any other group of people. Just turn on CNN sometime. Oh, no… Wait… The news doesn’t report that stuff. But lock a poodle in a hot car in July, and everyone from here to Turkey is gonna know about it.

    15-16: I’d call that a personal problem, not a Christian one.

    It’s so frustrating and hurtful to be shot down constantly by people who have only ever known Sunday morning Christians. I challenge you to meet a true, loving Follower of Christ, and try to write another list like this. You’ve met all the wrong ones. Try again.

    Signed, Former Atheist

    Like

    • wise sloth

      You should check out the rest of my essays on Christianity. I’ve compiled them all into a convenient E-book: http://www.scribd.com/doc/124010563/The-Reality-of-Christianity

      Signed,
      A former Christian

      Like

    • Alex Adieu

      I will also add that for those of us suffering with disabilities(aspergers in my case), you can say we don’t understand your religion from now till the end of time. At no time when I was a Christian did ANYONE(even my closest friends in church) try to really help me even simply to understand my issues. I had to lift myself up by my boot straps, learn NLP, meditation, etc etc which in the end stopped my melt downs and allowed me to get a college education, allowed me to just show up to work on time and get a good nights sleep. All I got from the people that were true Christians(not the sunday morning variety) was an endless brow beating about “just turn it over to God” which never once stopped any of my issues. People would say “you’re simply serving Satan” or some other variety of that, and if that were the case then Satan has been there for me where “God” was too incompetent to just fix me. Of course I don’t believe in either one as they are both imaginary friends, but if they were real, Satan did a lot more for me than Jehova. Atheism allowed me to not get depressed because I was no longer trying to force myself to process information (faith) that my brain is incapable of processing due to being such a literal concrete thinker. Go ahead and tell me I just don’t understand, I agree. Thankful I don’t have to ever deal with any religion, frees me from suicidal thoughts and depression. Wash my hands of it.

      Like

  • afaqsiddiqi

    I have found your website yesterday.I read thoroughly whatever was there. I myself have turned from a simple believer to an argumentative one.i have written a book ” Why Search For Truth” in Urdu which has gone on the Newageislam website.I travel far and wide with an intention to sit with people of different religon and culture . I thought that it is the only right and unbiased way to learn and find truth in them as no one religion or philosophy has the answer to all the questions which an inquisitive mind places before them. science also leaves us in darkness at a higher level of intellectual abstractions. So ultimately one has to keep his one hand on science and the other on religion for a satisfactory run of his life.

    Like

  • Donald R. Davidson

    I became a Christian after years of whatever you want to call it when you don’t care about anything. I looked into Agnosticism and Religion and studied C S Lewis and Peter Kreeft, read all I could from atheist material and Christian apologetics. I found just the opposite from solid Christian thinkers. I for one, don’t think atheists and others that rail against Christainity and Christians are bad people per se, but they are just as influenced by pop culture and emotionalism as some religionists are influenced by emtionalism. The Christian faith I have found, isn’t based on blind faith, but trusting in history and logic and reason.

    I just can’t lean on secularism and humanism to see what this world has to offer as valid at all. But that doesn’t mean I reject working hard for the future betterment of anyone and everyone.

    Like

  • Steve B

    Christians I have known are in general very well meaning people. Morals aside, they are still basing their knowledge of Jesus/God from what a book has TOLD them. I appreciate the good intentioned Christian, I don’t appreciate the ignorant Christian.
    The Christian who tells everyone that they are going to Hell may think they are warning us. To me they are threatening us, join the club or pay the terrible price.
    Some loving God you guys have there. Love me or else.

    Like

  • Rebecca

    So I will preface my comment with the knowledge that I have made the decision to follow Christ making me a “Christian.”

    I will applaud your pointing out the hypocrisy found in Christians today. I actually quoted you on my facebook because I think what you said in #14 is so true and convicting.

    Christianity is not for the faint hearted. Sure, Jesus did say his yoke was easy and his burden light and it certainly is , but not in the way easy and light is to our physical body. and you are right that many of us Christians don’t actually know what we are claiming to be devoted to. Personally that is why I think Jesus said many will come to him on judgment day and say Lord Lord! and He will say depart from me, I never knew you. It’s a sad reality but a true one. The Kingdom of God is totally upside down, inside out, and backwards from everything we know here, ESPECIALLY American culture. Give us real christianty, the kind where Jesus tells us to turn the other cheek, sell all that we own and bless those that persecute us or the kind that require us to die for our faith and many would turn around running because many people don’t want Jesus, they just want to feel good, and have the illusion that they are safe because God is on their side (which is really just pride and manipulation to be in control).

    The truth is that there is a great deception. It is a deception that pervades everything and everyone; including the church. No one is exempt. It is at the root of everything mankind knows as evil and it is at the root of christian hypocrisy. Christianity is a choice. To be a Christ follower is never a one time decision, that is why we are told to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. Claiming the name of Christ is not a small thing, and the weight of who he was and what he did can not be taken lightly.

    Jesus was humility in action and it is only through the eyes of humility that the deception of pride can be seen. So if someone comes to you in Jesus name and it is not matched with the essence of humility and love. Then I would simply just point out as you did so eloquently in your article that it might do them some good to go research who Jesus really is and what he really asks us to do. Then follow it up with, come back and talk to me when you are doing that. In that place everyone is a winner; because from my vantage point you have just planted a seed that God will use to grow the person and refine them if they are truly His like he did with me through your article and from your vantage point, they will stop arguing with you🙂

    Like

  • Theresa

    Just out of curiosity have you ever discused the bible with a Jehovahs witness. They believe that science actually backs up the bible. For example the water cycle is spoken about among other things like this.

    Like

  • Melissa

    I find it really curious that the only comments here are from people who agree with you!

    Like

  • Steve Wester

    I will not Debate Jesus Christ. Debating Jesus is like casting pearls before swine. Yes ,I will stand on my faith and you will fall on your religion, yes , I said religion. You worship yourself. You have fallen for the same trick that caused mans fall in the beginning. You have made yourself god.

    Like

  • MagicChris

    Is it wrong to want them to keep eating the poisoned food and water so i don’t have to fight them myself?

    Like

  • churchmouse

    No Christian can tell anyone who is going to heaven or to hell. I despise those who try. They in one side of their mouths say that no one can understand the mind of God, yet from the other side of their mouths they claim that God has somehow revealed to them his plan for, not only them but for everyone else.
    They claim to have him for a savior, but then go out and do anything they choose and claim that they are justified. They have no authority to talk the talk, unless they walk the walk. If no man is beyond God’s judgment, those who think they can speak for him are among them.
    They have no authority to police up the world and they had better start policing up themselves least they be found as hypocritical to god as they do everyone else in this world.

    Like

    • kevinchrist123

      Yea, like gang violence, teenage pregnancy, drug addiction, venereal disease. Having a different value system than yours is quit dangerous, isn’t it. But who is it really dangerous to? I think it is more dangerous to the ideologues that think their ideology is beyond reproach.

      Like

  • Crystal

    My 14 yr old daughter was raised by my parents in a closed minded Christian home, like I was. I gave up Christianity. My daughter is almost brainwashed. She is coming to live with me in 2 weeks. Yes, I agree, it is pointless to argue about faith or a lack thereof, but what if it’s a life debate between mother and daughter?

    Like

    • wise sloth

      You don’t have to have that debate. If you teach your daughter to use common sense, think logically, ask questions, question her own answers in general and connect the dots, she will develop a clear perception of reality. Ironically, it could actually help to encourage her to study the Bible. The Bible is factually incorrect. It’s a blatant product of a primitive people projecting their existing values into a mythology. Get your daughter to read “Misquoting Jesus” to learn about all the textual flaws in the Bible. In order to remain a Christian you have to turn a blind eye to a lot of horrible, obviously flawed things in the Bible, and when Christians finally do take a good long look at the absurdities and flaws in the Bible it becomes very hard for them to even want to hold onto that. My non-professional advice would be to educate your daughter, not confront her.

      Liked by 1 person

      • churchmouse

        I’ve always been interested in why so many people try to use modern sensibilities to judge a book that’s more than a thousand years old. That’s like judging you for what you did when you were 9.

        I’ve also read up on this Bart Erhman. I’ve heard him speak and all he does is try to rationalize things. It’s typical elitist thinking. Nothing new. If you want someone to discuss and debate Christianity, then I’m your man. I’m not anal about religion. I have my views, but I’m not opposed to possibly being torn apart in an open and honest debate. People such as yourself make me rethink my own ideals and just maybe we can come to a consensus. I’m not a Bible thumper and I don’t want to convert you. Are you open to this, Mr. Sloth?

        Like

    • churchmouse

      I would ask you why you were not raising your own daughter, but I would wager that the life you chose made that imposible. One thing about Christian Households are there is a good chance that they have an orderly life.

      Like

  • Churchmouse

    Looking for logic in it is trying to read a text in a language you don’t understand. I’ve lived my life stuck in this area. It was immersed in it before I was aware there was a world without it. It is something that will be with me for the rest of my life and as so I will always see the world through a filter of what some call righteousness.

    Secular people see religion as a gig saw puzzle, directly from the box and poured out on a table. They pick up this piece and that piece. Turn it around in their hands, but to actually try putting it together is to step away from the truths that you have learned and upen themselves up to a new reality. That is why it can only be fully excepted by those who’s lives are not working out for them. The rest can accept those people who are faithful, but not their belief system.

    That is where so many religious people get into trouble. They have so much of consciousness invested in this mindset and so little invested in the realities of the world outside, that they perceive that everyone else is as lost as they would be, if they did not have faith to guide them. They perceive they are the rescuers in a lifeboat and all else is drowning.

    The reason Christians are so intense on this subject is that the lifeboat analogy is much more a barrier between their world and and the secular one. It defines them as who they are and their ability to discuss religion. To the secular world, debating faith is debating a system of beliefs, but to the faithful, they are debating the existence of their lifeboat. If you were at sea in this lifeboat, would you not defend that boat with every fiber of your being. This is how the faithful see their religion, and it is not just Christianity that feels this way. To the religious, religion is all they have.

    Like

  • FriendofDaishonin

    Thank you. You just saved me about 60 dollars because I was going to buy the encyclopedia of biblical errancy(to help a friend of mine whose in laws have custody of her nine year old daughter and they have brought the girl to tears because they are brain washing her into believing that her mother is going to hell because she isn’t Christian and my ego and resentment wants me to call them out for child abuse) but I have changed my mind. I do suggest to my friend ways that she can keep them out of her head because she doesn’t have a lot of confidence in herself so her father in law can corner her like a good over bearing pushy christian(or so I am assuming he does as it sounds like when she talks to me about this). Why should I try to free someone from there delusion in the bible when they aren’t even willing to try to free themselves? Never thought of that before! When I used to be Christian I wouldn’t listen to reason, and I went to the ends of the earth(literally, was in the Navy and got stationed in Japan where I became Buddhist) to earn my freedom from the brain washing I had received as a child. I am the only one who could have freed me by only relying on me.

    Like

  • Norman

    In my case the article sums up what muslims say when confronted too. I never even start these fights.

    Like

    • Anonymous

      Y’all just don’t want to answer to a holy god you love your sin!
      Full of pride!

      Like

      • Anonymous

        No we don’t. Stopping belief in something doesn’t negate ot. The argument that we don’t believe in god because we want to sin is stupid. You can’t stop believing in cars needing gasoline and ride your car even if I wanted to because facts don’t care about your opinion. So if God was real not believing wouldn’t do anything because if he was fact believing in him wouldn’t allow people to sin and people that believein god sin too.

        Like

  • Leslie

    Under “10. If all else fails, you’re going to hell”, you can add my family’s personal favorite.

    “The Bible doesn’t make sense to you because Satan has clouded your mind. You are incapable of understanding the beautiful simplicity without the guiding hand of the Holy Spirit.”

    In other words, I need to become a Christian in order to understand how to become a Christian.

    Like

    • churchmouse

      I can’t stand these people who think they know who is going to Hell. It’s usually those people who put others in Hell, just be preaching that stuff.

      Like

  • humanitarikim

    Delusion. Delusion. Delusion. We can’t have a reasonable conversation with them because their beliefs are built on delusion.

    Nice read. I have subscribed.

    Like

    • Laura

      Brilliant absolutely WONDERFUL!!!!I LOVE this guy!!!

      Like

      • FlipWorldUpsidedown (@Flpwrldupsdwn)

        …of course you love this guy…cause he’s leading you along with what your preconceived notions of the truth is!
        You are not looking for truth. Your looking for others that bolster your notions of what the truth is. So you can live comfortably in you sins…Deceiving and being deceived!.
        Not reading and studying the bible for yourself!
        All this whole blog is about is mocking and falsely accusing Christians of things. And not fully understanding God. I’d love to see a blog by this same person mocking and making fun of Budha, or Islam, or Hinduism…political correctness doesn’t allow for that these days though hmmmm?! ever wonder y there is a double standard? no problem picking apart the bible and making fun of Christians mocking them…etc…but none of this same mocking spills over into making fun of other religions etc…

        This reply by the way is directed to all that are with this guy on this ridiculous exegesis of the bible. If you took a good hard look at history.(no not the history we were taught within the indoctrination centers called school) the bible has always been known to be apart of the historical records..backed up by unbiblical as well as biblical sources…but all you people do is continue to find people that are like minded unbelievers repeating falsities over and over again…

        its funny too You say all say Christians have been brainwashed.
        If you went to a public school in north america
        than you have no right whatsoever to say that we
        have been brainwashed. You are the one that has been brainwashed, by the
        public education system based on Skinnerian operant conditioning. If you dont know what that is, its time to do a little research behind the
        system that “Educated you” all these years.

        In the public indoctrination centres. who decides what they are going to teach? Who creates the curriculum? You were taught to conform at an early age.Now you must trust that these people who created your curriculum have your best interest at heart?

        I chose to be a christian, and read the bible…you didnt choose to go to Public school. You were told that you had to go its the LAW!

        Some of you use examples of Christians doing this or doing that.. and that’s the example you use for all Christians..
        So on judgement day you’ll say to God…well so and so did this and they were a christian (also human being), so i didnt follow Christianity for that reason…What do you think the creator of the universe will say to that!? pfff have fun with that one!

        Leslie: you just hate that you have to follow a holy God and his rules that’s the real issue…you make fun of your family members but they seem to be the smart ones. Shame on you read the bible for yourself and ask the Holy Ghost to guide you to the truth…don’t use your families poor examples to stray from the faith,….if you indeed were a believer int he first place…

        humanitarikum.
        sorry dude that’s a really stupid response…I’m using your same supposed “critical thinking” skill and turning them back on you…your the delusional one…not sure what your beliefs are as you haven’t let anyone know with those comments but i can hazard a guess that your an atheist…if that’s the case then your the DELUSIONAL ONE! you don’t believe there is a God yet you talk about a being that you don’t think exists more than a lot of religious people do…so seriously dude!!
        whose the delusional one!??

        Like

        • Curt

          Wow, just wow. I’m guessing you also think the country was founded on what you think your bible says and there should be no separation of church and state?

          Like

        • Kam

          @flipthewordupsidedown Oh what a hypocrite, you Christians mock all relgion. You say only Christians can go to heaven and the rest goes to hell. Your stupid bible said you will only go to heaven if you believe Jesus is God. Your whole religion mocks and disrespects every religion and believe every single religion should be disregarded because its different from Christianity. And you guys have the guts to say you guys are the only ones that are right and the rest are wrong, and in your eyes that’s okay but when someone like this author that criticizes your religion and points out good arguments against your religion it’s wrong? I think its you and the whole damn Christians that will go to hell. You guys are going against your own religion, in the Bible it said he created free will, it is our choice to believe the word of god but yet you abuse others, try to belittle people, and enforce your own will upon others just to agree with you, just to become a christian and go to your stupid church every Sunday morning. And is it a random coincidence that the word “church” came from Greek word “kyriakos” during ancient Greece, yes the time of the great Greek mythology you utter fool. That’s right I said it your religion came from Greek Mythology, and why is the 7th day called Sunday? Oh the holy Sabbath. You know the word sunday, is derived from the “sun” god Appollo? And how funny is that the great Vatican is in Italy! That’s right the origin of Ancient Rome, oh the Great Zeus or Jupiter, and Hades or Pluto. I be damned. And is it a coincidence most Western Languages derived from Latin which is derived from Greek? Your whole religion is a mythology, it came from Greek Mythology, your whole religion is just a cult and an attempt to brain wash people to believe in your stupid ideology.

          Like

          • Kam

            This may come into conflict of what I replied to Steven, so let me clarify, you guys twisted Hinduism in your own sick hateful manner. The idea of trinity (three in one), the concept of hell and heaven, the concept of a one god all came from Hinduism and I can list more but I won’t. Christians committed the worst crimes in human history, and your statement proves it, your mentality is exactly the same with the Nazis, the Americans who brought slaves from Africa, the so called Great European empires invading other people’s land and killing them in the name of Christ, drugging people and etc. And I don’t even need to mention the Roman Catholic church during the 1600s and 1700s. You guys caused much pain and evil from this world because you think you are better than anyone else. And your great brilliant quote “I chose to be a christian, and read the bible…you didnt choose to go to Public school. You were told that you had to go its the LAW!” Lol, no we weren’t told that going to school is the LAW, it is also OUR CHOICE. There is a reason why parents can home school their children, why Catholics can send their children to a catholic school, why Jews send them to a Jewish School and etc, or the parents don’t send their children to scool. Children can make that decision themselves and the parents can make that happen vice versa. I don’t know where you live but in Canada WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO GO TO ANY SCHOOL OR NO SCHOOL AT ALL. IT IS OUR RIGHTS AS WE LIVE IN A DEMOCRATIC SOCIETY YOU FOOL.

            Like

Feel free to leave a comment.

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: