Should Muslims be feared, accepted or what?

I’ve never written about Islam before because journalists and bloggers have been shamed, threatened, and killed by Muslims for criticizing Islam. A lot of other people have chosen not to publicly speak objectively about Islam out of fear. This may seem like a victory to some Muslims, but censoring discussion about Islam has also had the effect of keeping non-Muslims from being able to learn about Islam and understand it. Since they can’t hear the objective side of the story, they only hear the Islamophobic side. Now that I.S.I.S. has basically ignited WWIII, and Europe is being flooded with Muslim refugees from the Middle East, people are talking about Islam more than ever, but the public dialogue still has its hands tied. The mounting tension combined with mounting misinformation is making non-Muslims panicky and distrustful of Muslims.

I’ve received more E-mails asking me to write a blog about Islam/Muslims than any other topic. It would be pointless for me to write a blog explaining what Islam is since Wikipedia has already done a better job of that than I could. What I can offer is some perspective on whether or not you should be afraid of Muslims and Islamic culture.

It’s tragic that there’s so much ignorance about Islam, because there are over 1.5 billion Muslims in the world. That’s almost one fifth of the entire human species. If you take any group of 1.5 billion people you’ll find every possible kind of person from the most intelligent saint to the most ignorant murderer, and you’ll find the same spectrum of personalities if you poll the populations of each of the world’s major religions.

People act basically the same regardless of what religion they profess. Most self-proclaimed believers are effectively non-practicing, or “lapsed,” as the Catholic Church would say. Most believers have never read their sacred book cover to cover. If they have, they’ve only done it a few times. They glazed over parts of it. They ignored the parts they didn’t understand, and they never read much if anything critical of their religion. Most people don’t fully understand the religion they claim to believe in, and they don’t base their entire lives around it. They base most of their decisions on cultural norms, personal wants and logic.

Some people might call non-practicing theists hypocrites. I just call them human. It’s human nature to mimic the culture you were raised in. It’s all you know about life, after all. So humans tend to accept the creation story they were told and repeat the rituals they were taught. But most people are poor, busy, stressed, not-exactly-geniuses, looking for love and trying to succeed in the modern world. Life is demanding, and people have too many real world problems to deal with to spend their evenings reading contextual analyses of ancient manuscripts. So the average person exercises their faith just enough to feel safe in death and then gets on with their life.

Religion is just a hat most people wear. Underneath the hat, they’re exactly the same as anyone else who wears any other hat. They’re just people who live in houses, struggle with bills, love their family, enjoy hobbies, go to work every day and hope they can retire in comfort. They’re just faces you pass on the sidewalk. They have personality flaws, but most of them would never and will never kill anyone. The worst thing they’ll probably ever do is not fulfill their potential.

There will always be a percentage of followers in any religion who will fixate on the most aggressive aspects of their decided holy text. There will always be Kim Davis’s, Westboro Baptist Church’s, Osama Bin Laden’s, Crusades and Inquisitions. That threat will always be small, but it will always be real as long as people believe in books that contain (or can be interpreted to contain) divinely inspired instructions to harm other people. On a philosophical level, this means you should be a little afraid of religion, but it doesn’t mean you should be afraid of religious people moving into your neighborhood.

You can find inhumane instructions if you dig deep enough into any major religion, but most people don’t follow them, because they either didn’t read that far or it’s not socially acceptable or practical. The average Muslim is no more likely to go on a murderous Jihad than the average Jew is to stone a woman for adultery. The average Muslim doesn’t support I.S.I.S. any more than the average Christian supports the K.K.K.

You probably already know that. You’re not really afraid your Muslim neighbor is making bombs, but you may be struggling to decide how much you should respect your neighbor’s exotic cultural practices, particularly the ones that seem oppressive, like forcing women to cover their breasts and faces.

The bottom line on that question is, you can’t make a categorical imperative out of refusing to objectively criticize anyone’s ideas and behaviors. If we did, all cultural progress would cease forever. In ancient Hawaiian culture, women weren’t allowed to eat bananas, and the punishment for eating them was death. Everyone in the world today would agree that’s not just, logical or divinely inspired. None of us are closed-minded or disrespectful for disagreeing with that practice. That rule needed to become obsolete.

There’s a right way and a wrong way to hold people accountable. You’ve known someone your entire life who believes and does things that you believe are wrong, but you still value that person and enjoy their company. You don’t sit around at night pondering whether or not you should be offended by their antics. You just accept them and move on. If their behavior comes up in conversation, you express your disagreement politely and honestly, because it would be doing your friend a disservice by silently condoning behavior that you believe is counterproductive. If they don’t listen, you’re able to just agree to disagree and get on with your lives. You’ve done that before. Every day we’re honest without being spiteful. If we can do that in every other aspect of life, we should be able to do it when we disagree with other people’s religions. It would be illogical and hypocritical to love some people despite their differences and hate others for theirs.

At this point some of you may be thinking, “Sure, in theory we should all get along like a big hippie commune, but right now in the real world, Muslims are murdering each other in droves in the Middle East in the name of Allah. Muslims are overcrowding European cities and bringing all the crime that comes with overcrowding and poverty. The author of this blog even prefaced it by saying that he, himself, has been terrorized into not speaking openly about Islam out of fear of being murdered in cold blood. That’s not for nothing. That means something.”

For the sake of argument, let’s say that the very existence of  I.S.I.S and the recent shootings in France prove I’m being way too lenient and forgiving towards Islam. Le’ts assume your worst fears are true. What’s the call to action that raises? Do you exile all the Muslims? Do you round them up in the streets and shoot them? Do you pass laws suppressing their culture? Do you sneer at them in public and bully them?

Every religious and ethnic group in the world has, and always have had, rules that are good, bad and irrelevant. Every culture is constantly evolving as it adopts customs that work and abandons ones that don’t. No culture was ever improved by insults, fights or killings. Cultures improve as the population’s knowledge and self-empowerment increase. Cultures devolve as the population’s access to education and basic needs decrease.

If you’re worried about any group of people oppressing, terrorizing and killing people, the best thing you can do to combat that threat is to donate to free online education and work to eliminate poverty. When people are educated and safe, they’ll naturally gravitate towards fulfilling their potential as a self-actualized individual instead of fighting to secure rewards in the afterlife.

Update: I’ve written a follow-up blog to this one:

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37 responses to “Should Muslims be feared, accepted or what?

  • Writing B.S.

    I hate to burst anyone’s bubble that may have already ‘donated to online education or for poverty elimination’, but if I remember correctly, Osama Bin Laden was wealthy and highly educated; most, if not all, of his top henchmen were/are as well.

    Me thinks that the wise sloth spent a lot of time writing a blog post about radical Islam that could have just as easily been summed up by simply saying, “ehhh, whatever. What’s the big deal?”

    Now, this is not to say that we should not work to educate those without opportunity, or that we shouldn’t help others in need; in fact, most other organized religions and secular organizations spend billions of dollars around the world helping those in need and educating those without opportunity. However, I don’t recall seeing a lot of money from Muslim churches being spread around poor non-Muslim communities, or being used to build schools in the countries dominated by other faiths.

    Whether the sloth wants to admit it or not, the Muslim faith (lapsed followers and all) has a legacy culture of self-preservation and domination. There is no ‘tolerance’ or ‘acceptance’ in that culture. And those within the Muslim community (faith based or ethnically related) that don’t believe in the extreme beliefs and related actions taken by the crazies don’t have the backbone to stand up to them. They are sheep that are willing to kill for the shepherd. I for one am not willing to be killed by either the sheep or the shepherd.

    There is no room for political correctness when the life on the line is your own. If an entire community will not stand against a radical element within, then that community had better be willing to fall along with that radical element when it’s taken down. It’s no more complicated than that…

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  • UziOne

    Hello all,

    As I write this, the entire country of France is in a state of emergency—basically, shut down. There have been 6 separate terrorist attacks and we are looking at a body count of over 100 people. That’s right, 100 folks who had the audacity to live in a civilized country and not believe in a mythological moon-god. 100 people murdered, gunned down, blown to bit, or executed. I will now give you 3 very laughable multiple choice options on who is behind this hell-on-earth……

    1) The Loch Ness Monster
    2) Celine Dion
    3) Muslim extremist (males between the ages of 18-45 mindlessly screaming Aloha Snackbar).

    Fred, if I come across as harsh or brusk, I do apologize. You and I are on separate spectrums. No, I do not even remotely think that some crazy mass genocide is the answer to this, but I do 100% believe and can back up with evidence, that Islam and the West/Civilized countries are completely incompatible. Since 9/11 I have done quite a bit of studying and research on Global Islamic terrorism and what makes these folks tick. The daily death toll on a world wide scale is STAGGERING/ So my harshness comes from having a damn belly full of the endless whining, false persecutions, beheadings, child rapes, women gang raped, uncountable murders, hair trigger sensitivity, arrogance, child sex rings, suicide bombings, and basically this “religion” being a boil on the ass of humanity.

    You guys wanted to know if Islam should be feared, accepted or what. I think Paris, France has your answer. For me. until the snake is proven to be non-poisonous, the snake must go elsewhere and treated as poisonous. We have a saying in these parts—“pray for peace, but polish the weapons.”

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    • Fred

      I am not denying that France is under attack by terrorists. I also know that those terrorists are very likely radical Islamists. However are you saying that constitutes as “evidence” that all Muslims are bad?

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      • UziOne

        Fred,
        You either see the writing on the wall or you don’t. Figure it out..

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        • Fred

          You are a racist. Plain and simple

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          • UziOne

            You are an idiot. Plain and simple. Islam is not a race–so how exactly am I “racist”??? Thanks for playing. I’ll call NASA and tell them you are missing…

            Make excuses for barbaric/dog shit behavior all day. The overwhelming proof is in the pudding. It’s not Islamophobia (complete b.s. word) if they are actually trying to kill you.

            Jackass.

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            • Fred

              Let me rephrase. You are an ignorant bigot, if you think the actions of a few defines the beliefs of the majority.

              You are also a hypocrite if you don’t consider that Extremist Christians have been guilty of the same atrocities.

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              • UziOne

                Christians might have been guilty oh, a 1000 years ago. Unfortunately for your screeching liberal douchebag argument, we are in the here and now . A fact you don’t want to admit. What the hell does some other religion did a thousand years ago have to do with anything?? I’m an informed realist–you are in fantasy land. Nice family photos you posted, did you get those at the Wal-Mart picture frame isle? Would you care for me to post some photos of what the religion of peace has accomplished in the last few days? I don’t think you could stomach it.

                I’d rather be a hypocrite than stick my head in the sand and sing ku-by-ya. When the shit hits the fan, I’ll be standing, you might want to invest in some knee-pads..

                You can’t educate an idiot, so I won’t be wasting my time on the likes you, as blood is spilled every day and as France is completely shut down in the name of a gutter religion .
                Deal with it or go find a sand box to stick your head in.

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                • Fred

                  You are right you can’t educate an idiot. That is why I am not trying to educate you. You are too narrow minded to consider both sides of the coin. There is nothing unique about your position. You drink the same koolaid most of the country drinks. Thats the koolaid Foxnews and every major media outlet wants you to drink. You are among the masses who lack the ability to think outside of the box. They count on your ignorance. It helps them sell advertisement space and it helps politicians secure votes (yes both democrats and republicans) People with your mentality are dangerous to humanity. You have what I call “Nazi Mentality”. You will be among those supporting the mass extermination of Muslims in the U.S. If it ever comes to such a thing. I know it makes you feel important to be part of the hate spreading majority. I am sorry to tell you,that just makes you another one of the sheeple.

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                • Fred

                  I am not talking about 1000 years ago. If you did a little research, you would find plenty of atrocities committed by radical groups CLAIMING to be Christian within the last 20 years. The reason I mention that is because those groups no more repesent true Chritainity or western mentality than ISIS represents islam. Just because a group claims they are doing God’s work, doesn’t make it so. You in all your ignorance believe that ISIS speaks for all Muslims, but you would never consider that Extreme Christian groups speak for all Christians. That is where you are a hypocrite. If you were to read the Qu’ran and the Bible in their entirity, you would find that they are so similiar they are basically the same book, but you would never consider Christianity to be evil, yet you are convinced that Islam is. Your argument is that ALL Muslims are bad and should be regarded as such, because of the actions of large terrorist groups who CLAIM they are followers of Islam, when the truth is those leaders are driven by nothing more than greed and hunger for power. ISIS is a terrorist organization that recruits uneducated poverty stricten males who very much like you are unable to think for thenselves and take the messages from propoganda that is shoved in their faces as the ultimate truth.

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                  • UziOne

                    Congrats on using ALL the nonsensical liberal talking points: ignorant, intolerant, bigot, Fox News, not ALL muslims are bad, and of course, I’m a Nazi! Not from any true insight you have into the human psyche or even me, it’s designed to stifle dissenting opinions. Too bad, you’ve stifled nothing. You did leave out any mention of George Bush, so Fred, I’m going to give you an “A” for effort, but a “D” for douchebag in delivery.

                    That was quite a rant. Are you trying to convince me or yourself?
                    Project much? Read the headlines—good people of all nations are tired of this shit. No one should suffer this nonsense.

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                    • Fred

                      I know it takes a lot to let go of ones biased and ignorant views, but I am disappointed you weren’t able to offer up a more intelligent come back. You couldn’t think of anything better to say , so you basically shut down the conversation out of lack of resources to back up your positions. That is a form of laziness. That is the thing with a majority of racists and bigots. They are too lazy to do any real research and just keep sprouting the same lines they learned from their favorite media outlets or their daddy. Who knows, but eventually they run out of things to say and they are too lazy to research new information. I will help you out. Google Lord’s Resistant Army. They have been terrorizing people in Africa for the last 20 years in the name of the Lord. They rape, and mutilate women and children. They seem to have this sick need to cut peoples noses off. Why haven’t you heard about them or at least heard about them in awhile? Because the media and the government likes to heard the Sheeple in specific directions and like the obedient sheeple you are, you go the direction they want you to go and never bother to look outside the box or read between the lines and see what else is going on that you aren’t taking into consideration. If you can muster the effort to read all about them, I hope you will come back and tell us again how all Muslim’s are bad because of the actions of terrorists claiming to be Muslims, while all Christians are not bad even though there are huge terrorist networks claiming to be Christian doing the same thing or worse. I’ll bet your argument will be “That is irrelevant” in which case I will invite you to tell us WHY its irrelevant and please don’t say its because its in Africa. That would be just too perfect. Come on keep trying Uzione. I know you have it in you. Just for your information, I am not a liberal and you are probably the first person to ever call me one. I am a Libertarian. You don’t have to be a liberal to be against hatred. THAT by the way is the typical argument people like you use when you can’t back up your position with common sense. You start screaming :”Liberal!” as if a political view has something to do with humanity. Please try again.

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                    • Fred

                      “Read the headlines”

                      Try reading the whole articles. You might be surprised on how misleading headlines are.

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    • Fred

      “Countless Islamic groups around the globe have also vehemently rejected ISIS. French Imams are blasting the militant group from their pulpits. Britian’s largest Mosque has declared them “Un-Islamic.” Sunni and Shia clerics in Iraq have distributed a fatwa to nearly 50,000 mosques announcing that ISIS is “not in any way linked to [the Muslim] faith” and warning that failing to stand up against the group is effectively a sin. Even Egypt’s Grand Mufti has lambasted the group, and Dar al-Ifta, one of the most influential Muslim schools in the world, has launched a global campaign to strike the word “Islamic” from ISIS’s title, seeking to rebrand it as “al-Qaeda Separatists in Iraq and Syria,” or QSIS, saying the organization has “tarnished image of Islam across the globe.””

      http://thinkprogress.org/world/2014/09/11/3566181/why-isis-is-in-fact-not-islamic/

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  • Fred

    Wise Sloth, I like your adjustments to the final 4 paragraphs. I am just curious about one thing. Do you feel terrorized by the Islam Crowd, Anti Islam Crowd or both?

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    • wise sloth

      I feel terrorized by the people who shot up the Charlie Hedbo office, and I’m scared of any large group of people who are distrustful and hateful towards another group of people. Historically, mass xenophobia has never ended well.

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  • Fred

    This is getting too squeezed. I am starting a new thread. Here are the links to the pics I attempted to post in the previous post.

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    • Kevin

      Fred, I would like to thank you for showing me these pictures and also seeing another side of things.

      What I meant was that the Muslims won’t allow outsiders into their communities. My issue was with Islam, not the Arabs, Syrians or any other Nationality or Ethnicity in particular.

      I must admit, your comparison of ghettos in the US makes a lot of sense and I am starting to believe you are correct in that I have been reading into this whole situation too much.

      Wise Sloth’s argument about overcrowding and poverty being the true problem in European cities seems truthful as well and supports this argument.

      I feel now that all these things might very well be unrelated to Islam and that I believed it to be because of Islam coinciding with all of these issues arising.

      Maybe if I were living in a different country I would have believed the Christians or Jews to be the problem and accuse them of the same crimes.

      I still have a problem with the fact that many non-extremist Muslims seem to share similar or even the same views as the murderers and torturers trying to turn the world to Islam.

      Aside from that I feel a lot more at ease now and once more I’d like to thank you UziOne, Fred and Wise Sloth for having this discussion with me in a civil manner all the way through.

      Sadly in my past experiences, arguments about religion have turned into verbal fights and name calling very quickly with no one wanting to agree or simply disagree and leave it at that.

      So I am glad to see that it can turn out peacefully.

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  • UziOne

    Sloth, with all due respect, I think you are missing some things. Judaism, Christianity,Catholicism etc. have had reformations. Islam has NOT. Yes, other religions across the globe have committed atrocities of all manner across the globe, but Islam is leading the pack by FAR on this issue CURRENTLY. I’d go as far as to say, it’s the worst humanity has to offer. Many Islamic countries are completely stuck in the 7th century and not compatible with modern/civilized countries. Diversity + Close Proximity = turmoil or war.

    Don’t believe me? Sweden has a rape epidemic and ‘no go’ zones thanks to the followers of Mohammed. England has terrorist in their midst–openly threatening death to all, bleeding the welfare system dry and breeding like rabbits—yet the Brits will not stand up and take their country back from the barbarians. Political correctness and ‘diversity’ may well be the damned death of us all. How many thousands of times have we heard Islamic clerics/leaders and even countries called for the death of (insert country, artist, comedy figure, Jews, non-believers, gays, journalists, authors, anyone critical of Islam, etc)? When people chant “Death to America” 24/7 for 40 years—maybe it’s time to take them at their word…

    To look at Islam as ‘just another religion’, is completely silly. It is a totalitarian death cult. The rush of ‘refugees’ into Europe? Mostly able bodied men—could well be the biggest trojan horse in history. I will be laughed and scoffed at for that comment, I’m sure, but I sincerely, hope I am wrong. In short, Islam is the brainwashed/masses are asses/permanently offended past. Not the future of humanity.

    Trust is EARNED, oh wise Sloth. Islam hasn’t earned it. Should it be feared or accepted? Neither–it should be ostracized. Let them tend to their own business and problems and leave the rest of us alone. They bring nothing to the table but chaos and death
    http://www.thereligionofpeace.com

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  • Linda Gerstmann

    You know, I’ve always been a “live and let live” person. And that first comment , long as it is, blows my mind. Someone with that kind of mindset bears watching, because he is one dangerous motherfucker. Pardon my French.

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    • Kevin

      I’d normally agree with you Linda, but I have until recently lived in Germany and I truly believe that Islam is a threat. MANY people all over Europe are starting to believe that this whole thing is a trojan horse and countries like Hungary are in a state of emergency. Having to close up their borders and using police and military to fend off the refugees. ISIS themselves have stated that in the huge stream of refugees they will insert many of their agents. Refugees are almost exclusively able bodied young men. There’s a crime and rape epidemic all across Europe now. Low income families are being thrown out of their homes to make room for refugees. They throw away food and demand money. Even the Bundeswehr has it’s soldiers now sleeping outside in tents so the refugees may use the barracks. These refugees are openly saying Christians should be decapitated, it is okay to rape non muslim women and they call the police racists and nazis so the police isn’t allowed to act.

      This is happening in Germany, France, Hungary, UK, Greece, Italy and Switzerland. I’m sure there are many more countries which are affected.

      http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/6721/muslim-invasion-europe

      There are so many more of these, but the media won’t show any of it.

      Don’t tell me you don’t think there is something wrong with this picture.

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      • Fred

        Kevin, that right there was a very ignorant post. I am not even sure if I should bother trying to reason with you, but here goes. You just clumped all the billions of Muslims in the world into the same category of “terrorist” because ISIS is causing hovac and claims to operate under Islam teachings.

        Think about that for a minute. Do you honestly think ISIS represents every Muslim in the world?

        While you are at it consider this. ISIS is causing mayhem IN THE ISLAM WORLD. Who do you think are shooting back at them? Other Muslims!!

        I have a friend who is a Kurd and a Muslim. The last time I heard from him (four months ago) he told me that his MUSLIM country has been engaged in a bloody battle with ISIS as they tried to push ISIS out of Kurdistan.

        All the cities ISIS has ravaged are MUSLIM cities.

        Please consider these facts before you spread your ignorance on the future.

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        • UziOne

          Fred, I’d say Kevin just gave you all the facts you need. You just don’t like what it adds up to. Muslims DON’T assimilate. They never have. They openly threaten, openly scream of domination, openly reveal their true intentions, and no one wants to take them at their word until it’s too late. Almost 1,500 years of conquering or attempting to conquer and folks STILL don’t get it. The videos show utter barbaric behavior and from the infowars clip, Germany (and other countries I would assume) are NOT equipped to deal with this kind of upheaval. There seems to be an ongoing argument that “not all muslims are bad.” I’m sure there were followers of the Nazi party that just got carried along for the ride, may have even been decent folks and didn’t believe in what the party faithful were doing. But I will point out that it only took a fanatical minority to make the atrocities we know of to become a reality. Maybe it’s just Islam is bad? I know of one thing. This will all end poorly for the west–the probability that we may have to fight to reclaim our own country is growing higher by the day. Tolerating the intolerable is not a virtue, it’s stupidity and suicide.

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          • Fred

            “1500 years of trying to conquer the world”? Really? Christians have been doing that longer.

            You compared an Anti Semitic Movement to a vast world wide religion.

            Infowars? Don’t you know they thrive on conspiracy and fear mongering? They are counting on you to be biased and narrow minded. That is how they make their money.

            You have to look at the whole picture not the drama the media outlets like to shove in your face.

            There are 1.5 Billion Muslims in the world. You seen footage and read about the actions of maybe a couple million. Lets assume its even as high as 10 million. That is still less than 1 percent of the entire Muslim population world wide.

            Have you ever met a Muslim? Sat down had an in depth conversation with one? Or do you form all your opinions on what the media wants you to believe?

            You will probably answer “Yes” and give me a vague example of this one time.

            My wife works for the county in the Detroit area. One of her jobs is to visit homes of people living under the poverty level and help them enroll their preschool age kids in headstart programs. She also explains all the health benefits they are entitled to and helps them enroll. A majority of her clients are Arab Muslims and she says they are always respectful and nice to her. She is a BIG christian by the way.

            Now have I met them? Yes I have. Because of her job she is also responsible for organizing and running events for the community. I have attended these events with her and have sat down and had in depth conversations with many Arab Muslims. I also found them to be very respectful and polite and the fact that I am white (not really christian) didn’t bother them at all.

            Would you like to know what I learned their main concerns were? I will tell you. All these Muslim men I spoke too were concerned with making sure their children got a good education, had food to eat and have opportunities to be successful in life. Many of these men work two jobs so they can provide for their families. Not one person had one negative thing to say about the USA or Christians or any of that propaganda you hold so dear to your heart.

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            • UziOne

              Methinks you doth protest too much. She’s around them and they are kind because they are a minority. When that changes, so do muslim behaviors. This has been shown time and again. Whenever they become a majority, then come the taxes, forced conversions, rapes, assaults, etc.

              A couple of MILLION brainwashed wackos is a big fugging problem, my friend. As a world, we are flooded with biological, nuclear, and chemical weapons. Why do you insist on giving nightmarish behavior a pass?? I stand on the side of humanity. Islam is bad for humanity. Just as Nazism was. Period. The parallels are becoming more clear by the day.

              I’ve met a few Muslims in my day. I worked with one for several years. Good fellow, but he was born into it, and not a practicing follower. I don’t see a great need to have a discussion given the FACT that they are told to deceive non-believers by their prophet.

              http://www.muslimfact.com/bm/terror-in-the-name-of-islam/islam-permits-lying-to-deceive-unbelievers-and-bri~print.shtml

              Personally, I find the silence of the non-crazy ones to be deafening. This religion ran out of excuses long ago in my book. They are to be treated like rattlesnakes—poisonous until proven otherwise. I guess we’ll see what we’ll see…

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      • Fred

        I would like to add something after warching all the videos you included with your post.

        I don’t know what you are seeing in these videos that is considered a “threat” to you or your way of life.

        All I see are people chanting, protesting and in a couple cases rioting out of desperation and instinct to survive. They are in the middle of a real crisis and noone is offering any real aid. Put yourself in that situation and I will bet you get fed up too and lash out.

        Is that constructive? No. Will it make people look on them favorably? No. But that doesn’t make it a threat on you or me. Very simliar acts have been happening in our own country in recent months.

        I really don’t get the point of the videos. I guess your message is “Muslims get angry when they feel oppressed”

        Okay……

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        • Kevin

          Fred, I don’t feel like that was an ignorant post, but I do see where you are coming from and I’m glad you posted anyway.

          I’m definitely not saying all muslims are bad. What I think is happening is that the Sharia Law version of Islam is spreading rapidly all over the globe.

          England had a poll saying what I believe was 57% of the people would welcome Sharia Law in their own country. That means cutting off someone’s hand when they stole from someone else and similiar punishments.

          And yes I understand riots happening out of desperation. The point of the videos were that if I were fleeing from war, I certainly wouldn’t be throwing my food away and demanding money from the Government. I’d just be happy having food, shelter and no fear of being captured, tortured or killed. I wouldn’t be attacking and robbing the very people that are letting me into their country.

          Also in Europe many cities have sections that are “off limits” to non-muslims. You’ll be followed and harassed to leave. Why is that?

          When christians have demonstrations, protests or other events people show up stating they are muslim and would decapitate the christians if it were up to them. Why would they say things like that?

          Now I’m not saying christians are any better, but I still feel like Islam is being used as this machine for domination.

          I hope this clears it up a little better. I’m not a hateful person, I just fear that Europe will be destabilized and maybe even destroyed yet again.

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          • Fred

            “Also in Europe many cities have sections that are “off limits” to non-muslims. You’ll be followed and harassed to leave. Why is that?”

            Yes Europe is known to enact “Jim Crow” laws too. What is that? Because they are racist.

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            • Kevin

              Fred, it is too bad you only replied to one thing here. I was hoping to have more input about at least a few things of what I said.

              These “Jim Crow” laws were in the US. Unless you’re talking about the 1930s. Well, all I can say to that is it’s history. The past. I’m talking about “now” and there is no racial segregation being enforced in Europe by the any body of governement.

              How can you say they are racist when they are obviously multicultural. Germany has a great majority of Russian, Kazakh and Turkish decent. UK has a great majority of Chinese and Indians. Europe has Churches, Mosques and Synagogues. Europe has legalized gay marriage long before the US did. They are taking in more refugees than any other place on earth.

              Please tell me how Europe is close minded, racist and sexist again?

              They are a very tolerant people and I fear that will be their downfall.

              All in all, I really would like you to know that I hope so very much that I’m wrong about all this. I hope that nothing bad will come of all this and that we can all live in peace, with or without religion.

              But as it stands, I am very fearful of the future.

              Like

              • Fred

                I will try to be a little more complete with out going into all that detail. It is just another form of reacting to fear before considering the facts. Similar to how rights are restricted in the U.S. every time something bad happens. Europe countries are vulnerable to fear mongers too. If a tiny group of Arabs commit an act of violence in Europe they may enact restrictions that apply to all Arabs or Muslims in that area. Perhaps their constitution allows them to do that.

                When there is a mass shooting in the U.S., Almost immediately afterwards guns are blamed and new laws and restrictions are passed in the state in which the shooting occurred. Rather than addressing the root of the problem they punish all the law abiding gun owners.

                That same thing will happen in Europe. One tiny group of radical Islamist commit an act of terror and then all people of Islam faith are criminalized.

                These are simple Jim Crow laws as we had here in the U.S. You are implying that because this Jim Crow laws are being enacted in Europe in present times, they most be right after all the entire world has evolved in the last 50 years right? That seems to be the base of your argument. “It is happening NOW not 50 years ago” In a lot of ways Europe can still be behind us when it comes to ethic tolerance. There are still states in Europe who have strong Nazi beliefs. Ignorance is a world wide epidemic. The fact that these restrictions are being put on Arab muslims now rather than 50 years ago carries no weight as far as I am concerned. All that tells me is that this is a country that enacted Jim Crow mentality.

                Now I am not familiar with this case you are pointing out. Is it possible that this is just a matter of trying to keep the illegal population under control? Are these perhaps Arabs who moved there seeking refuge? Does it actually say it applies to all Muslims, even those born in that country? Can you show that?

                Like

                • Kevin

                  I see what you mean about the issue of gun laws concerning shootings. And you’re right, people are being punished for a small percent of damaged individuals.

                  The thing is though, whenever these things happen in Europe, governments turn a blind eye. They don’t enact any laws they, don’t forbid the wearing of burkas or the chanting of “Alluah Akbar”. They just deny everything and say there is no problem.

                  Of course I’m not saying they should go out passing new laws. Just as you said to UziOne about the idea of rounding everyone up and killing them. These ideas never work and I don’t believe it would in this case either. If anything, it would exacerbate things considerably.

                  Honestly I don’t know what to do. My only idea would be to abolish all religion altogether since I feel that it has been holding humanity back and dividing it, but that wouldn’t work either and it would be unfair to all the honest and good people following any religion and it would breed more hate from the extremists of all sides.

                  The other issue I’m referring to are that in Berlin, Munich, Paris and I believe cities in Austria and Sweden as well have parts where there are all muslim communities. Which is fine, I don’t mind that, people of the same interests want to stick together. The thing that bothers me is that they will not allow anyone into these parts. You can’t walk down those streets or even live there if you are not a muslim. Why do they feel the need to do this when the vast majority of the European people are open to religion, sexual orientation and heritage?

                  I know there are Nazis in Europe, they’re all over the world. They’re just not a big enough majority to where these things are valid options for muslims. The Christians don’t do this, the Jews don’t and neither do Hindus or Jehovas Witnesses or any other religion do this. I can’t speak for Scientology, they are forbidden in Europe as they are recognized as a cult.

                  Maybe I’m just paranoid, maybe I don’t have all the information, but all these things strike me as strange.

                  The more I look the more I find in favour of mine and UziOne’s argument. I find information conflicting that as well. I look all over and I can’t seem to figure out the truth.

                  Is Islam really trying to take over the world? I find Muslims openly admitting this, but also others that deny this. Are they telling the truth? The Quran has Taqyya and Kitman which state that Muslims are permitted and encouraged to lie to non-muslims if it furthers the cause of Islam.

                  Is this just all a huge lie by the US and it’s European puppet states to keep us afraid of an ideal rather than a specific person or group? Was ISIS created by them and everything is going according to plan or are they out of control and the governments don’t know what to do about it?

                  I haven’t figured it out yet.

                  Like

                  • Fred

                    First you made it clear that the Governments in Europe are not the ones forbidding others from entering the Muslim communities in the countries you listed. So I have to assume that what you mean is that the people who live in these communities do not want any outsiders coming in. Or you are saying that outsiders are AFRAID to come in.

                    Lets try to think about that rationally. If you are a white guy would you feel safe walking into the Ghetto of Detroit? Would you recommend that to others who are not from that community? Probably not. I spend a lot of time in the Detroit Metro area, but there are many areas I know are not safe and I avoid them. They are areas that are poverty stricken, drugs and crime are rampant there. That doesn’t mean there are terrorist factions building up in there, although I can agree it would make for a good hiding spot for a terrorist group.

                    Likewise, if I was to enter the ghetto of Detroit I would likely be harassed by the ruling gang members. I might even be killed if they feel I pose some kind of threat to them or maybe they are just bored. Who knows. If I brought my wife with me. I don’t even want to think about what might happen to her.

                    You are implying because its in Europe and because they are Arabs and Muslims that its not the same thing. Why can’t it be the same thing? Europeans who are not in living in poverty avoid the ghetto just as we do in the U.S.

                    Arabs tend to fill the Ghettos in Europe as for decades they had been leaving the middle east to escape the turmoil that has been going on there for decades. They have to start over at the bottom in Europe. This puts them in poverty, therefore they live in the Ghettos.

                    There are always going to be criminals in the ghettos. That is where they thrive, they are protected there. That doesn’t mean everyone who lives in the Ghetto is a criminal. Sure they will be wary of outsiders. but small town people are wary of outsiders too.

                    I am sure there are gangs who might forbid anyone from entering their turf just as they are gangs who do that in the U.S. Don’t read into it so much. I will guarantee a majority of these people are just trying to take care of their families the best they can. They struggle like everyone else does.

                    Is your issue with Muslims or with Arabs? Like the bible the Koran has parts that could be consider old testament and do not apply to todays society. However like many “Extreme Christian” groups there are some Extreme Muslim/Islam groups who prefer that “Old Testament” part of the Koran and they preach it as if it is the only acceptable law of the land. I promise you that applies to less than 1% of all the Muslims world wide. Most Muslims are peaceful people who smile and laugh and just try to enjoy life. The media like to portray the Muslim as angry and hateful and dangerous because Drama and fear sells and they like to make money.

                    Like wise in the Arab world the media portrays Christians the same way the U.S. Media portrays Muslims and as you can see that is why large groups of Muslims are so quick to hate us just as large groups of Christians are so quick to hate them. . We should all be ashamed for letting the media on both sides manipulate us so much. We should all be working together to overthrow tyrannical governments and create a more peaceful world. I think we can achieve that by thinking for ourselves and stop listening and believing everything the media tells us. Recognize that most muslims are easy going and kind people just as must christians or americans are.

                    I found some pictures that I hope might help you see things from a different perspective. Many people have the vision of Muslims as being Angry and dangerous people who chant in the streets and throw rocks or bomb bus stations. The pictures below I hope will show another side that the media likes to hide.

                    I am not sure how to post pics in here. I am using HTML . I hope it works.

                    Like

  • Dan

    This was an interesting article from Viewzone Magazine:

    It was posted on http://www.whatreallyhappened.com

    “Our race (speaking of the Jews) is the Master Race. We are divine gods on this planet. We are as different from the inferior races as they are from insects. In fact, compared to our race, other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best. Other races are considered as human excrement. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. Our earthly kingdom will be ruled by our leader with a rod of iron. The masses will lick our feet and serve us as our slaves.”
    – Menachem Begin. (Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin in a speech to the Knesset [Israeli Parlament], quoted by Amnon Kapeliouk, “Begin and the Beasts,” New Statesman, June 25, 1982)

    JEWISH SCRIPTURES DESCRIBING NON-JEWS AS ANIMALS

    “Only the Jews are humans, the Non-Jews are not humans, but cattle” (goyim = human cattle) [1]
    – Kerithuth 6b page 78, Jebhammoth 61a

    “The Non-Jews have been created to serve the Jews as slaves” [2]
    – Midrasch Talpioth 225

    “The Non-Jews have to be avoided, even more than sick pigs”
    – Orach Chaiim 57, 6a

    “Sexual intercourse with Non-Jews is like sexual intercourse with animals”
    – Kethuboth 3b

    “The birth-rate of the Non-Jews has to be suppressed massively” [3]
    – Zohar II, 4b

    “As you replace lost cows and donkeys, so you shall replace dead Non-Jews” [4]
    – Iore Dea 337,1

    “To box an Israeli on the ear, is like to box on the ear of God”
    – Sanhedrin 58b

    “God (Jahveh) is never angry about the Jews, just about the Non-Jews”
    – Talmud IV / 8 / 4a

    “The human (the Jew) has to pray every day three times, because Jahveh didn’t make him a goyim, not a female and not an ignorant”
    – Talmud V / 2 / 43b + 44a

    “Towards a Non-Jew the Jew doesn’t cause an adultery… Punishable for the Jew is just the adultery towards his next, that means the wife of a Jew. The wife of the Non-Jew is excluded”
    – Talmud IV / 4 / 52b

    “There is no wife for the goyim, they really aren’t their wives”
    – Talmud IV / 4 / 81 + 82ab

    “You (the Jews) have made me, Jahveh, the only true lord in the world, so I will make you the only ruler in the world”
    “Who wants to be smart shall occupy himself with money matters, because there are no corner pillars in the Thora that are more important, because they are like a sparkling fountain”
    – Talmud IV / 3 / 173b

    “Jews always have to try to deceive Non-Jews” [5]
    – Zohar I, 168a

    “Non-Jewish property belongs to the Jew who uses it first”
    – Babba Bathra 54b

    “If two Jews have deceived a Non-Jew, they have to split the profit”
    – Choschen Ham 183,7

    “Every Jew is allowed to use lies and perjury to bring a Non-Jew to ruin”
    – Babba Kama 113a

    “The possessions of the goyim are like an ownerless desert, and everybody (every Jew) who seizes it, has acquired it”
    – Talmud IV / 3 / 54b

    “The Jew is allowed to exploit the mistake of a Non-Jew and to deceive him”
    – Talmud IV / 1 / 113b

    “The Jew is allowed to practice usury on the Non-Jew” [6]
    – Talmud IV / 2 / 70b

    “When the Messiah comes, all will be slaves of the Jews”
    – Erubin 43b

    “Whoever disobeys a Rabbi deserves death… Whosoever disobeys the rabbis deserves death and will be punished by being boiled in hot excrement in hell.”
    – Erubin 21b

    “If a Jew is tempted to do evil he should go to a city where he is not known and do the evil there”
    – Moed Kattan 17a

    “Non-Jews are Not Human. Only Jews are human (“Only ye are designated men”)
    – Baba Mezia 114a-114b

    “Jews are Divine. If a heathen (Gentile) hits a Jew, the Gentile must be killed. Hitting a Jew is the same as hitting God”
    – Sanhedrin 58b

    O.K. to Cheat Non-Jews. A Jew need not pay a Gentile (“Cuthean”) the wages owed him for work
    – Sanhedrin 57a

    “If an ox of an Israelite gores an ox of a Canaanite there is no liability; but if an ox of a Canaanite gores an ox of an Israelite…the payment is to be in full.”
    – Baba Kamma 37b

    Jews May Steal from Non-Jews – Baba Mezia 24a

    If a Jew finds an object lost by a Gentile (“heathen”) it does not have to be returned
    – (Affirmed also in Baba Kamma 113b)

    God will not spare a Jew who “marries his daughter to an old man or takes a wife for his infant son or returns a lost article to a Cuthean…”
    – Sanhedrin 76a

    Jews May Rob and Kill Non-Jews. When a Jew murders a Gentile (“Cuthean”), there will be no death penalty. What a Jew steals from a Gentile he may keep
    – Sanhedrin 57a

    Gentiles are outside the protection of the law and God has “exposed their money to Israel.”
    – Baba Kamma 37b

    Jews May Lie to Non-Jews. Jews may use lies (“subterfuges”) to circumvent a Gentile
    – Baba Kamma 113a

    Non-Jewish Children Sub-Human. All Gentile children are animals
    – Yebamoth 98a

    Gentile girls are in a state of niddah (filth) from birth
    – Abodah Zarah 36b

    Gentiles prefer sex with cows
    – Abodah Zarah 22a-22b

    A Jew may marry a three year old girl (specifically, three years “and a day” old).

    SANHEDRIN, 55b: “A maiden three years and a day may be acquired in marriage by coition, and if her deceased husband’s brother cohabits with her, she becomes his. The penalty of adultery may be incurred through her; (if a niddah) she defiles him who has connection with her, so that he in turn defiles that upon which he lies, as a garment which has lain upon (a person afflicted with gonorrhea).” (emphasis in original text of Soncino Edition, Ed.)

    Sanhedrin 55b

    A Jew may have sex with a child as long as the child is less than nine years old.
    Sanhedrin 54b
    “When a grown-up man has intercourse with a little girl it is nothing.”
    Kethuboth 11b

    “Murdering Goyim is like killing a wild animal.”
    – Sanhedrin 59a

    “Even the best of the Gentiles should be killed.”
    – Abodah Zara 26b

    “To communicate anything with a Goy about our religious relations would be equal to the killing of all Jews, for if the Goyim knew what we teach about them, they would kill us openly.”
    – Libbre David 37

    “Sexual intercourse with a little girl is permitted if she is of three years of age.”
    – Yebhamoth 11b

    “Jesus is in hell and is being punished by being boiled in semen. Christians are boiled in dung”
    – Gittin 57a

    “If it be proven that someone has given the money of Israelites to the Goyim, a way must be found after prudent consideration to wipe him off the face of this earth.”
    – Choschen Ham 388, 15

    “A Jew may keep anything he finds which belongs to the Akum (Gentile). For he who returns lost property (to Gentiles) sins against the law by increasing the power of the transgressors of the law. It is praiseworthy, however, to return lost property if it is done to honor the name of God, namely if by so doing Christians will praise the Jews and look upon them as honorable people.”
    – Choschen Ham 266, 1

    Viewzone Magazine

    Like

  • Dan

    Americans are the most lied to people on the face of the earth. If the weatherman tells me that it is going to be sunny, I bring my raincoat!
    I think that before we start discussing politics, we should all brush up on our Noam Chomsky, Chris Hedges, Rebecca Roth, Michael Parenti, Bonnie Faulkner, Alison Weir, Jeremy Scahill, Kevin Barrett, Gregory Noory, Friedrich Nietzsche, Helen Caldicott, Naomi Wolf, Henry Giroux, Edward Said,  Vandana Shiva, Gore Vidal, Bill Moyers, Matt Taibbi, Joel Wallach, Arundhati Roy, not to mention Poncho Threetrees, etc. (If we are to have any chance at all, we must look to alternative authors, books, websites, etc.; instead of the status quo propaganda outlets that keep us ignorant and wrong.)
    websites:
    http://www.whatreallyhappened.com
    http://www.noliesradio.org
    http://www.truthdig.com
    http://www.truthjihad.blogspot.com
    http://www.gunsandbutter.org
    http://www.coasttocoastam.com
    http://www.kpfa.org
    http://www.linktv.org
    http://www.kpfk.org
    http://www.ifamericansknew.org
    http://www.palestineremembered.org
    http://www.zcommunications.org
    http://www.popularresistance.org
    http://www.freespeech.org
    http://www.alternativeradio.org
    http://www.ae911truth.org
    http://www.pacifica.org
    http://www.wrmea.com
    http://www.govtslaves.info
    http://www.investmentwatchblog.com
    If everyone in this country (who ISN’T fooled by the Conservative, Right Wing, Fascist, Corporate agenda that we have been on for as long as anyone can remember) would just write one email, email flyer, or email chain letter, etc. every week, to a few friends, relatives, enemies, or someone and send 1 or 2 dollars every month to some organization that is trying to do something in the effort to wake up the naïve citizens, maybe something would change, and we can reverse the idiocies mentioned in Thomas Frank’s “What’s The Matter With Kansas”. IT WOULD BE A START! Remember: It’s not “Speaking truth to power”. It’s “Speaking truth about power”, covertly or anonymously. (C.Y.A.)

    Like

  • Fred

    Perfectly expressed. I could not have said it better

    Like

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